Community Poll: Fallen/Holy Rebalance Analysis
Entry posted by Raidou in Community Feedback ·
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Community Poll: Fallen/Holy Rebalance Analysis
17 members have voted
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1. How staff approach this?
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Reduce Fallen/Holy damage (1 x Slot x Tier)1
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Make Fallen/Holy Exclusive (Cannot have Fallen on a weapon with Holy or vise versa)11
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Increase both other existing damage enhancements (BRN, BLD, HM, Freeze, FB, etc.) & Enemy Mitigation4
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Institute two new enhancement/enemy effects: Fallen Immunity & Holy Immunity0
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Oh boy, here we go with addressing the elephant in the room. Given the state these enhancements are in, we have noticed there's a tendency to gravitate to them exclusively. This is due to the fact that Fallen and/or Holy are considerably overtuned in comparison to other options. We’d like to encourage build diversity and instead of making the call and changing something that very well be essential to existing builds, we’d like to understand and accept what the community believes we should do to rectify this issue.
Here is a conjoined expectation of what Holy & Fallen is capable of (Assuming 100% hit rate, and buffs, Sword Art Multiplier [x18] as an average):
Player 1 | Damage: 28 | FLN: 16 | HLY: 16 | ACC 5
Player 2 | Damage: 28 | FLN: 16 | HLY: 16 | ACC 5
Player 3 | Damage: 28 | FLN: 16 | HLY: 16 | ACC 5
Player 4 | Damage: 28 | FLN: 16 | HLY: 16 | ACC 5
Player 5 | Damage: 28 | FLN: 16 | HLY: 16 | ACC 5
Player 6 | Damage: 28 | FLN: 16 | HLY: 16 | ACC 5
28 x 18 = 504 x 6 players = 3024 Damage before MIT (This is our standard raw)
Now let's assume that each player has a 50% chance to activate one or the other. (Range 6-10)
That leaves us with 16 x 18 = 288 x 3 players = 864 Damage before MIT (Our Holy + Fallen Raw)
3024 + 864 = 3888 Total Damage before MIT
Now let's look at less desired damage enhancement types using the same numbers:
Player 1 | Damage: 28 | BLD: 48 | BRN: 56/2 | BLI: 32/2 | FB: 40/2
Player 2 | Damage: 28 | BLD: 48 | BRN: 56/2 | BLI: 32/2 | FB: 40/2
Player 3 | Damage: 28 | BLD: 48 | BRN: 56/2 | BLI: 32/2 | FB: 40/2
Player 4 | Damage: 28 | BLD: 48 | BRN: 56/2 | BLI: 32/2 | FB: 40/2
Player 5 | Damage: 28 | BLD: 48 | BRN: 56/2 | BLI: 32/2 | FB: 40/2
Player 6 | Damage: 28 | BLD: 48 | BRN: 56/2 | BLI: 32/2 | FB: 40/2
28 x 18 = 504 x 6 players = 3024 Damage before MIT (Again our standard raw)
Now we calculate assuming at least 1 player in 4 hits the activation range to apply their DoTs (30%). All other actions would simply refresh them. We will even be including Incarceration, which although resource hungry would be considered a buff for this calculation
96 (BLD) + 112 (BRN) + 64 (BLI) + 80 (FB) = 352 Unmitigated Damage
3024 + 352 = 3376 Total Damage before MIT
Now, instead of using an enemy with 0 MIT. Lets see how much Mitigation an enemy would have to have before DoT is at least comparable.
100 Enemy Mitigation:
{Fallen/Holy} 3888 - 600 [100 x 6 players] = 3288 Damage after MIT
{DoT} 3024 - 600 [100 x 6 players] = 2424 + 352 = 2776 Damage after MIT
Nope, still a huge disparity. How about 200 Enemy Mitigation?
200 Enemy Mitigation:
{Fallen/Holy} 3888 - 1200 [200 x 6 players] = 2688 Damage after MIT
{DoT} 3024 - 1200 [200 x 6 players] = 1824 + 352 = 2176 Damage after MIT
Ok, clearly they are just going to decrease at the same rate. So how much Mitigation would an enemy have to have before DoT stands a chance? Well that answer is simple, it has to have so much mitigation that the number exceeds the standard raw and actually effects Holy/Fallen. So in this case we would take the difference between Holy and Fallen + Standard Raw. Which uses the following calculations
864 - 352 = 512 / 6 [per player] = 85.33 Mitigation per player
Now we take our standard
3024 / 6 [per player] = 504 Mitigation per player
So add them together and we end up with:
504+85.33 = 589.33 Mitigation per player. That's a ton, now let's check it to make sure it is what is required. We will use a rounded 590 Mitigation per player
590 Enemy Mitigation:
{Fallen/Holy} 3888 - 3540 [590 x 6 players] = 348 Damage after MIT
{DoT} 3024 - 3540 [590 x 6 players] = 6 [Minimum Damage x 6 players] + 352 = 358 Damage after MIT
So to actually compare to Fallen/Holy, enemies must have at least 590 Mitigation for DoT to be equally effective with an incarcerations active. This will only scale massively once we use higher multipliers [x21 ST-B] for example.
Assuming your following along and have read and understand the above, here is our reasoning for the above options.
Option 1:
Reducing Fallen/Holy Damage to half its current values will reduce the effective difference between them by a drastic margin.
864 - 352 = 512 Damage difference
To
432 - 352 = 80 Damage difference
Which lowers the Enemy mitigation requirement to:
512 / 6 [per player] = 85.33 Additional Enemy Mitigation
80 / 6 [per player] = 13.33 Additional Enemy Mitigation
This option at least lowers the scale difference but is not a perfect solution.
Option 2:
Make Fallen/Holy Exclusive will also halve its current values, but will also improve build diversity by opening 2 slots. For the cost of reducing effective activation ranges. So using the above examples and using Holy (Given its lower activation range):
Player 1 | Damage: 28 | HLY: 16 | ACC 5
Player 2 | Damage: 28 | HLY: 16 | ACC 5
Player 3 | Damage: 28 | HLY: 16 | ACC 5
Player 4 | Damage: 28 | HLY: 16 | ACC 5
Player 5 | Damage: 28 | HLY: 16 | ACC 5
Player 6 | Damage: 28 | HLY: 16 | ACC 5
At a 20% activation range, that leaves us with approximately 1 activation in 5 players. Which makes the number look like:
16 x 18 = 288 Damage before MIT
As compared to the prior 352 Damage after MIT from DoT? But doesn’t that mean that DoT would be better? Not entirely, because again, there are now two free slots on the weapons of every member of the party listed above. That damage difference would be easily made up with nearly any other option that could be placed on a weapon.
Option 3:
Increase both other existing unique enhancements (BRN, BLD, HM, Freeze, FB, etc.) & Enemy MIT. One of the available options we have is closing the gap between Holy/Fallen and DoTs through increasing DoT damage.
All we need is this number:
864 - 352 = 512 Damage difference
512 / 4 [DoTs activated] = 128 per DoT / Incarceration Bonus (x2) = 64 per DoT
So we have to bump up each DoT around this margin, AND improve enemy mitigation to put more stress to force the gap to close. See Examples above but using higher DoT numbers and it will become clear. Higher DoT damage means the mitigation will not be as high to force standard raw to become 0 and begin to affect Holy/Fallen enough to shorten the gap. But it will still need to be massive.
Option 4:
Institute two new enhancement/effects: Fallen Immunity & Holy Immunity our least favorite option, but is an option nonetheless. It would allow us to tune enemies in such a way that both Holy and Fallen wouldn’t be as effective by reducing their activation ranges through immunity. This would be applied quite readily and wholeheartedly to existing creatures. Much in the vein of Eladriel the Corrupt the <<Floor 13 Field Boss>> who has the following ability:
Fallen From Grace | Eladriel is immune to Fallen Damage, but takes double Holy Damage (T1 Holy gives +4 base DMG per slot, T2 Holy gives +8 per slot).
Feel free to respond to this poll, but we would like examples and evidence to support claims made. This is a tough cookie to crack but must be cracked as to rectify build diversity.
The Monkey Wrench,
Raidou
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