Lowenthal 0 Posted March 4, 2016 #1 Share Posted March 4, 2016 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FSOY2uUkoGUgNz3RwqwxM-WlWr_Qx65TbT2dIz4vA_w/edit?usp=sharing ~Direct Link Sadly unique enhancements lack that certain appeal. Most of them look and feel like cutouts and carbon copies of other enhancements. So I sat down with other staff members to make all of the current unique enhancements that are found on the enhancement guide, more unique. Each effect, is proposed to have an immediate effect, and a side effect. Much like status ailments in Pokemon. Many effects have been changed, a few effects have been nerfed. Firstly, since Buffs vastly outweigh De-Buffs. I propose that a few new De-Buffs to be added in. (If you have an idea for a De-Buff, message Lowenthal at sao-rpg.com, or Lemonthal on skype) Reveal hidden contents Burned: You're on fire. You can do any basic actions (attack, use a potion, etc). Whilst 'Burn' is active, you suffer a (2+tier level) Base attack DeBuff. This DeBuff doesn't stack, but does continue for as long as 'Burn' is active. (Cannot be Burned and Frozen at the same time) Poisoned: Either it be an illness, or venom from a monster, something inside of you is damaging you. You suffer no DeBuffs, but you are unable to benefit from CD based skills. (Currently: Battle Healing, Recovery, and Regeneration). On top of that debuff, you suffer (3 x tier) points of unmitigatable damage. Frozen: You're so cold that your muscles have gone stiff.(Giggity) You're not encased in ice, but it looks like it. You lose 2 points of total Evasion, and are unable to switch equipment, for 2 turns. The Evasion debuff doesn't stack, but can be prolonged. (Cannot be frozen and Burned at the same time) Cursed: Be it a god's wrath, or a fallen angel's spear, you've been afflicted by a curse. Being Cursed means that you are alone, and Potions, Crystals, Fish, and Food items cannot be used by you, or on you. Cursed lasts for 2 turns, and can be prolonged. Phew, now that those are out of the way let's get to what everyone wants to see. The suggested changes to the unique enhancements! Yay! These work the same way as other enhancements, but slightly different. Reveal hidden contents Flames: The striking edge of the blade is covered in fire. Deals (1 x Tier) in Fire Damage, per slot used on a successful hit. With 1 slot of Flames, it will inflict the ‘Burning’ Debuff on a successful critical hit. With 2 slots, it will inflict ‘Burning’ on a successful hit. Enhancement Cap: 2 Slot Cost: 1 Envenom: The striking edge of the weapon is coated with a venom that will wrack pain into a target. A successful attack of 8, Or a successful critical hit, the target will be inflicted with Poison. Enhancement Cap: 1 Slot Cost: 1 Blight: The weapon has been coated in a more potent venom than Envenom. Deals (2 x Tier) damage on a successful hit and inflicts the target with poison on a successful critical hit. Slot Cost: 2 Enhancement Cap: 1 Holy Damage: The weapons carries the name of a god, or has been blessed by divine fortune. On a BD attack roll of 8 or a successful critical hit, it adds (2 x Tier) to your base damage. Adds the ‘Cursed’ Debuff, with a successful 8, or critical. Slot Cost: 1 Slot Enhancement Cap: 3 Fallen: The weapon has been cursed, or in itself unholy. A successful attack, will add (2 x Tier) to base damage. This effect does not activate on critical hit. Slot Cost: 1 Slot Enhancement Cap: 3 Phase: A weapon with phase seems more ghost like then physical. With one slot, it will phase through 50% of the target's total mitigation. With two slots, it will phase through 100% of an opponent's mitigation. Phase only works on natural rolls of 9, or 10. Enhancement Cap: 2 Slost Cost: 2 Freeze: A weapon with Freeze is covered in frost, and steam falls softly from it's striking surface. Deals (1 x Tier) damage on a successful hit. With 1 slot, a successful critical hit will inflict the ‘Frozen’ debuff. With two slots, the ‘Frozen’ debuff will be added on a successful hit. Slot Cost: 1Enhancement Cap: 2 Name: Offensive Paralytic Venom Cost: 1 Slot Cap: 2 Effect: Removes enemy action for 1 turn afterwards after a hit on a roll of 8-10 if one slot is used, and 7-10 if two slots are used. Adds the ‘Paralysis’ DeBuff. Name: Defensive Paralytic Venom Cost: 1 Slot Cap: 2 Effect: Removed enemy action for 1 turn afterwards when hit on a roll of 8-10 if one slot is used, and 7-10 if two slots are used. Adds the ‘Paralyzed’ Debuff’ Flame Thorns: deals [Slots Used(4 x Tier)] damage back to the attacking mob. On a critical, it will apply the ‘Burning’ Debuff to the attacker. (this is treated as normal thorns damage) Status immunity: iimmune to Thorns , Paralyse, Stun, and Bleed Damage. Enhancement Cap: 1 Slot Cost: 3 Elemental Immunity:immune to Frozen, Burning, and Poison. Enhancement Cap: 1 Slot cost: 3 Axiomatic Immunity: Immune to Holy and Fallen damage Enhancement Cap: 1 Slot cost is 3 Any comments, or concerns please do not hesitate to contact me. Lowenthal. Link to post Share on other sites
Hirru 0 Posted March 4, 2016 #2 Share Posted March 4, 2016 (edited) I sense the coming of horrible things in the future. *starts prepping merchant shop* Anyway, lets get to analyzing everything from the debuffs that are shown: Reveal hidden contents Burned - Minus (2 x tier) BASE damage? Losing health or losing actual DPS? I can easily see this being the bane of DPS users if it is the later. Great for Burning Thorn users (As you're all Tanks!) [And bosses] Duration - Not specified Losing part of ones base damage is quite the disadvantage, especially for the pure DPS users out there. I could see plenty of tanks wanting to grab the Burning Thorn enhancement, as that would put the attack at a huge disadvantage when taking damage from the thorns AND being weakened AT THE SAME TIME. Poisoned - (3 x tier) damage to target AND can't self regen health. Bane of Regen Tanks and DPS (Like myself) Great for DPS / Sup builds that want to weaken the target that constantly heals itself. (and bosses) Duration - Not specified I am literally scared of this one, because of my overall build. Taking damage AND losing self regen abilities for an undetermined amount of time. Without any mitigation, the player is F*cked. I would say that Antidote potions will start getting the added effect of removing and/or preventing this debuff. Frozen - Minus 2 EVA and can't switch items. Bane of Light Armor Evasion Builds Great against EVA enemies and PvP. (And bosses) Duration - 2 turns Evasion builds beware! Getting frozen and can't switch items for two turns sounds... kind of weak compared to the last two. Sure, you're losing EVA, and if you don't have any EVA, then the enemy is getting FREE HITS. That could be something, but for the most part, I can only see this as a PvP enhancement or something that a boss would have. Cursed - Can't use consumable items (Potions, Crystals, Food, Fish, etc.) That's it. Bane of JUST ABOUT EVERYONE!! Great for PK and Bosses (I'm watching you, Zero!) Duration - 2 turns This one........ I kind of like. For one, it is stopping ANYONE from using any HEALING, and BUFFING that is usually done through consumable items. Now, I don't know if the Banner items can be used during this, and I think I should say that they do (as they're not really single use consumable). Other than for people that actually plan to PK people in the future, and bosses, I don't really see the proper implications in Aincrad. That's about it for the Debuffs. Unless there are already specified durations for poison and burning, which I have looked through the guides, I would say that my only qualm for these are the duration times of burning and poison, unless it is like the other two and lasts for two turns. Other than that, I see nothing wrong here, except more ways for the dice roller and Zero to kill us all with mobs. In my next post, I'll talk about the actual enhancements. For now, this is your friendly neighborhood rune scribe, Hirru. Signing off! Edited March 4, 2016 by Hirru EDITED WITH SOME OPINIONS FOR EACH!! Link to post Share on other sites
Baldur 0 Posted March 4, 2016 #3 Share Posted March 4, 2016 (edited) *Editing for tone and because I'm having reading comprehension problems today* Edited March 4, 2016 by Baldur Link to post Share on other sites
Macradon 0 Posted March 4, 2016 #4 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Quote 2) These are unique item enhancements, meaning the item has a 4th slot. These don't need to be multi-slot enhancements. A weapon with +3 damage and 1 slot of Envenom is still a better weapon. These should all be designed as single slot enhancements, and I think you'll see that in general that's the only sane way to approach them. Expand No it doesn't. Unique drop can be a unique quality item or a perfect item with a unique enhancement. As well as merchants can give items unique enhancements. Envenom also has a cap of 1, so I don't know why you used that as an example. Quote 3) Why on earth do these always level up to the highest possible tier? You know we've got 100 floors right? These should stay with the tier that is appropriate for the level a player on the floor should be. Expand Only unique quality items scale to the highest possible tier available for the player. Link to post Share on other sites
Baldur 0 Posted March 4, 2016 #5 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Quote No it doesn't. Unique drop can be a unique quality item or a perfect item with a unique enhancement. As well as merchants can give items unique enhancements. Envenom also has a cap of 1, so I don't know why you used that as an example. Expand Just a minor point of order: saying that merchants can give items unique enhancements is a bit disingenuous. They have a 0.8% chance to unlock a unique enhancement, and then which enhancement you get is completely random, taking the odds that you get one that you would want down another two decimal places. Quote Only unique quality items scale to the highest possible tier available for the player. Expand Yes, that's what I meant to say they should NOT do. They should remain the tier they began at, as appropriate to level for which they were discovered. Link to post Share on other sites
Hirru 0 Posted March 4, 2016 #6 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Alright.. let's get some SAO knowledge out there. Let's say that every Last Hit item was a Unique quality item, in SAO. Kirito's Coat of Moonlight, which he got from the first floor boss fight, doesn't stay with him till the end. It changes as he goes on. Does it go up in level? No! It isn't the same coat. It's a new one that he gets created when the old ones upgrade slots get used up! We know this from the novels that the coat that he wears at the end game, was player made. This was due to a little system that allowed an item TO BECOME BASE MATERIAL FOR THE NEW ITEM!! The new item would gain some of the old items enhancements as base stats. In other words, unique items should stay to their tier, but with reason to use that as a building block for the next creation. Now going into the elemental damage. SAO didn't have magic, period. It definitely had status effects, which were crazy important as most were things that were possible in real life. Sure you had your 'cursed' or 'poisoned' status effects, but it also had 'stomachache' and 'dizzy'. These weren't just "Oh you can't do things cause the system said so"; they were "You can't do things, because your mind is telling you that you can't." Remember, this is all in a VIRTUAL REALITY MMORPG. Everything that effects the normal body, was also effecting them. If there was a status effect for 'burning', then your mind would be telling you "OH F*CK!! I NEED TO PUT OUT THIS FIRE ON ME, AND F*CK EVERYTHING ELSE!!" and the status effect would make that a reality by making you NOT FIGHT until you put out the fire, while your health slowly decreased. TL:DR No elemental damage. Status effects can be killer, regardless. Without going on a continued rant about how this entire forum is going against every canon that there is, I'm going to leave that there. Have a good one guys, I'm going to level my character up a bit. Link to post Share on other sites
Macradon 0 Posted March 4, 2016 #7 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Quote Just a minor point of order: saying that merchants can give items unique enhancements is a bit disingenuous. They have a 0.8% chance to unlock a unique enhancement, and then which enhancement you get is completely random, taking the odds that you get one that you would want down another two decimal places. Expand You can still get it form event/boss drop, which isn't that hard. Link to post Share on other sites
Baldur 0 Posted March 4, 2016 #8 Share Posted March 4, 2016 On 3/4/2016 at 6:52 PM, Macradon said: You can still get it form event/boss drop, which isn't that hard. Expand I haven't been a part of them to be able to give you anything from experience, but they used to go to most damage and most mitigated, didn't they? We automatically know who those are every fight. If that's changing, then great, but I wouldn't exactly say it's easy to get them either. We've cleared 14 floors? Do 14 players have uniques? Do 7? How many players did we have in this floor's raid? Link to post Share on other sites
Macradon 0 Posted March 4, 2016 #9 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Quote I haven't been a part of them to be able to give you anything from experience, but they used to go to most damage and most mitigated, didn't they? Expand That's the case for some, but the one I was in were LD run. They aren't all just most damage and most tanked, different kinds of requirements also show up here and there. Quote If that's changing, then great, but I wouldn't exactly say it's easy to get them either. We've cleared 14 floors? Do 14 players have uniques? Do 7? How many players did we have in this floor's raid? Expand I believe the amount of unique equipment is actually above the count of 14 and is split around (though mostly by the Azure) different players. Link to post Share on other sites
Baldur 0 Posted March 4, 2016 #10 Share Posted March 4, 2016 On 3/4/2016 at 6:59 PM, Macradon said: That's the case for some, but the one I was in were LD run. They aren't all just most damage and most tanked, different kinds of requirements also show up here and there. I believe the amount of unique equipment is actually above the count of 14 and is split around (though mostly by the Azure) different players. Expand I think you're right, I also think we're off point, so I digress. Link to post Share on other sites
Macradon 0 Posted March 4, 2016 #11 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Also, now that Canon was brought up. Demon Blades/Unique items scaled in canon. Link to post Share on other sites
Baldur 0 Posted March 4, 2016 #12 Share Posted March 4, 2016 On 3/4/2016 at 7:20 PM, Macradon said: Also, now that Canon was brought up. Demon Blades/Unique items scaled in canon. Expand That was ALO. No items scaled in SAO. Link to post Share on other sites
Macradon 0 Posted March 4, 2016 #13 Share Posted March 4, 2016 (edited) Demonic equipment was also a part of SAO EDIT: The Elucidator was a Demonic sword/Unique sword Edited March 4, 2016 by Macradon Link to post Share on other sites
Tristan Delaney 0 Posted March 5, 2016 #14 Share Posted March 5, 2016 Stepping in for canon notes. We dont follow full canon due to preservation of system made by past staff. To go full canon using strength/agility etc. with leveling up, leveling skills via use and equipment usually buffing said stats with sometimes special effects (such as Phase with PoH's Mate Chopper) would be ideal but would require a full overhaul. A plan for another time, but will be planned for possible horizon. Hirru is sort of right. Kirito generally kept himself a black coat crafted out of habit, though this was mostly a habit thing. As far as I know, there was no crafting new equipment based off an old one. What there is however is improving equipment, for example Elucidator from Floor 50 got upgraded to +40 considerably later by Lisbeth. As a whole, it is noted Demonic(unique) equipment is a notch above crafted, along with sometimes special effects like aforementioned Mate Chopper. The reason it scales is that from now onwards all floor bosses except benchmark and events give only a last hit reward and going with that, keeps uniques in circulation to avoid being too few around considering how players come and go. Back to topic, i already discussed some balance stuff in the chats. im also interested to see if this is limited to these enhancements or if most of them will get a revamp, as there are plenty others. Flame Thorns damage is also incorrect, though this is later getting tweaked to 7 per tier with thorns as is in near future. Link to post Share on other sites
Hirru 0 Posted March 5, 2016 #15 Share Posted March 5, 2016 (edited) I agree that some of the unique skills should be changed, but the addition of these debuffs as they currently are, may break the game. It think that's what everyone is talking about. I would go into finer detail, but I just woke up and I don't want to think stats right now. Also, @Tristan Delaney Reveal hidden contents The creation of a new item from the old is actually mentioned in Progressive 2, when Asuna gets her Wind Fleuret +5 converted into an ingot, which she then uses as a base material for Chivalric Rapier. It wasn't a particularly strong item compared to what we have, but it would have carried her through the next 4 floors. Kirito said it himself, that it was definitely stronger than his Anneal Blade +6 which had max 8 slots. Chivalric Rapier had 15 slots which would allow it to go far beyond its base stats. Though, in all technical resources, it was done by an NPC blacksmith who was known for high end crafts, on the third floor. Edited March 5, 2016 by Hirru Progressive 2 takes part on the third floor. Had to make that edit.. Link to post Share on other sites
Tristan Delaney 0 Posted March 5, 2016 #16 Share Posted March 5, 2016 @Hirru As of yesterday unique skills were reviewed and some changed to balance the playing field of them somewhat, so done. Enhancement changes were also made to buff DoT effects and nerf thorns including their unique enhancement counterparts. If Life didn't mention it I'll mention it today. And that's interesting to know! I haven't read any of the Progressive series though I plan to. I'll keep that in mind and ponder on it. Link to post Share on other sites
Baldur 0 Posted March 5, 2016 #17 Share Posted March 5, 2016 On 3/5/2016 at 4:05 PM, Tristan Delaney said: @Hirru As of yesterday unique skills were reviewed and some changed to balance the playing field of them somewhat, so done. Enhancement changes were also made to buff DoT effects and nerf thorns including their unique enhancement counterparts. If Life didn't mention it I'll mention it today. And that's interesting to know! I haven't read any of the Progressive series though I plan to. I'll keep that in mind and ponder on it. Expand I think about a year ago, Zel came up with a great crafting idea that allowed players to increase their items over time. If you combine this with the tier system, it would make for a great item system, and keep crafters themselves more engaged. Link to post Share on other sites
Tristan Delaney 0 Posted March 5, 2016 #18 Share Posted March 5, 2016 On 3/5/2016 at 4:19 PM, Baldur said: I think about a year ago, Zel came up with a great crafting idea that allowed players to increase their items over time. If you combine this with the tier system, it would make for a great item system, and keep crafters themselves more engaged. Expand I recall it, it was based off adding extra tiers which in turn added more slots. I looked at it but i realised also that "more slots" simply made weapons complex and some enhancements difficult to manage such as bleed, so opted with tiers. The adding of base attack and defence with equipment alongside that I also thought it would cause too much of a disparity in terms of power of equipment. Link to post Share on other sites
Baldur 0 Posted March 6, 2016 #19 Share Posted March 6, 2016 On 3/5/2016 at 9:25 PM, Tristan Delaney said: I recall it, it was based off adding extra tiers which in turn added more slots. I looked at it but i realised also that "more slots" simply made weapons complex and some enhancements difficult to manage such as bleed, so opted with tiers. The adding of base attack and defence with equipment alongside that I also thought it would cause too much of a disparity in terms of power of equipment. Expand I can understand that, but while I don't think more complexity is bad, you do have an avenue to do something similar. If you allowed items to be upgraded to like in the lore, then you could upgrade certain items from one tier to the next. The player would still need to be able to use the tier. But say that similar to merchants appraising another item, a crafter could upgrade items from one tier to the next for a certain mat cost and a roll. Link to post Share on other sites
Lowenthal 0 Posted March 7, 2016 Author #20 Share Posted March 7, 2016 Locking as this has done two things: 1. The conversation has derailed from the topic at hand. 2. The public has made it obviously clear that the proposed system is unwanted and/or unneeded. Link to post Share on other sites
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