UR Reward. Yes or No?.

[Rain 0]

Pretty much what Takao and a bunch of other people have said. RP is RP no matter what it is. Threads that meet the requirement should get their fair share of SP. I've seen a lot of threads where people are literally just talking among each other and they still get their SP, explicit RP threads should their fair share of SP, too. 

18 hours ago, Takao said:

1 thrust = 1 exp

xD

[Azrael 0]

It's isn't an erotic fiction site, this is a pg-13 role play forum. If you can't write a good story without the pornographic content, you're not a very good writer.

If a character spends all its time behind locked doors how, Is it earning the skill points for our listed skill sets given we've nothing like character attributes to boost.

Also, Intimacy between two people isn't just grown through physical bonding, so that isn't a good argument for this either.

 

@Lowenthal

But that's the thing! ;-; you can just sit in the tavern all day and drink and get stronger. I mean at least with sexual actions you are at least putting stress on your 'energy', 'strength', and 'skill'

 

I call shenanigans on this as not one player I know of has had enough threads by drinking alone to skill them up to front line. How does flopsweat equal skill, col maybe, but that'd require a charge for services rendered.

As for lower levels earning through town rps, they too don't earn the bulk of their sp that way. Most ultimately intend to fight to boost their skill points.

[Takao 0]

I think the point is rewarding people for putting in work and effort. The site is driven by mechanics and systems, so when you punish players for not using the mechanics and systems (by not rewarding them for social/non-combat threads), you end up discouraging people from an entire aspect of storytelling.

[Crimsa 0]

7 hours ago, Azrael said:

It's isn't an erotic fiction site, this is a pg-13 role play forum. If you can't write a good story without the pornographic content, you're not a very good writer.

If a character spends all its time behind locked doors how, Is it earning the skill points for our listed skill sets given we've nothing like character attributes to boost.

Also, Intimacy between two people isn't just grown through physical bonding, so that isn't a good argument for this either.

 

@Lowenthal

But that's the thing! ;-; you can just sit in the tavern all day and drink and get stronger. I mean at least with sexual actions you are at least putting stress on your 'energy', 'strength', and 'skill'

 

I call shenanigans on this as not one player I know of has had enough threads by drinking alone to skill them up to front line. How does flopsweat equal skill, col maybe, but that'd require a charge for services rendered.

As for lower levels earning through town rps, they too don't earn the bulk of their sp that way. Most ultimately intend to fight to boost their skill points.

No, you're right Azrael. :) 
it isn't an Erotic Fiction Site, this is a Roleplaying site. And we all know it is a PG-13 Forum. Though I would like to point out that we do Indeed have a UR section that has been used many times. And people have their own writing styles, if that be Erotica. Let them. If their style of writing includes this it is rather insulting to say they aren't good writers, that's like me saying because you don't write Erotica you're not a good writer. Both statements are hurtful, unneeded to be said, and to be frank. Pointless. For intimacy it was never said that is only grew through the physical, it was explained that it aids in advancing it beyond what it already is. 

You can call Shenanigans all you want, but it can be done. It was never claimed that a person got god like power through sitting, it was just stated that player's can sit and drink some good ale for 21 posts to earn 1 SP and 400 Col. 

I really don't see why there are still issues when this has been already ruled to be in effect, we can earn rewards via UR/Sexual Content from the word of @Sharkhimself. [While I have not seen it officially announced on site that is the ruling that was given to me in IM.]. I mean we have a logical and functional way of providing rewards from UR threads now, that still keep the children of SAO-RP's eyes shielded. Nothing was broken, something was fixed. I respect everyone's opinion about the matter, but @Takao really hit the nail on the head with his words. There was never an issue about not being able to write erotica, it was an issue about not receiving rewards for doing so. Yes it's silly, but there was never a true need to not hand out rewards to players that had sexual content within their UR topics.  

And honestly it would be foolish to say that Sexual intimacy between two Players isn't character development, because it really is. I'm not saying that there can't be development without sex, but it's definitely a step towards growing closer as partners. If player's so choose to go this route they shouldn't be voided of rewards, because at this point we have a working solution. If it got ruled even after all this that player's would not receive them. it would be a ruling based off of Personal Opinions, not logic. As the only foreseeable issue has been dealt with.

Edited June 6, 2016 by Crimsa

[Life 0]

Mack and I have discussed this and have told rest of the staff. UR threads will not count for rewards, and this decision will not be changed. The reasons are as followed.

1. There is no transparency between players within UR and those outside of it.
2. Quality of RP is significantly lower in UR.
3. One Erotic Rp for true character development between two players is not enough to allow rewards for all UR rps.
4. Apart from Erotic RP, there isn't anything you can do in the UR that you normally can't in the main forums. There is no blood, gore, or pain in SAO.
5. Sex isn't needed for romantic development between two characters. No one is getting pregnant and starting a family in SAO either.
6. The UR has never counted for rewards, and was not meant for regular use as this site is meant to be PG 13+

To counter argue some previously mentioned points.

"It's still rp, equal reward for equal effort" - Writing erotic doesn't take the same amount of effort as actual plot development between a multitude of characters.
"It isn't fair to the players who want to write UR" - That is their choice, be it knowing that they will not be rewarded for it. We do not want to encourage it here. 
"You can be rewarded for doing nothing outside of UR" This is true, however these types of RPS can vary over a vast range of different types of RPS. The UR only covers erotic, one type. 

[Crimsa 0]

@Life Glad to know the voice of the many means [censored] to you. Seriously?. what is the point of support ticket?. We have spoken as a community as it is, yet. All of us, against the word of a few?. And you wanna bet that quality get's lowered!? go read me and zero's thread!. Go on!. You might as well ban mat gather threads as well since those are low quality and are not important development. And yes it does Life, it really, really does. I would LOVE!, for you to indulge me and participate in a UR thread with Crimsa. 

You are basing a ruling off of personal opinion, of an ENTIRE genre of writing, and half the [censored] you just spewed makes no sense. This is going to come back to bite you in the ass so bad you have no idea. =-=

Edited June 7, 2016 by Crimsa

[Hakai 0]

"1. There is no transparency between players within UR and those outside of it.
2. Quality of RP is significantly lower in UR."

Those two are incredibly biased, and therefore shouldnt be used to judge how this issue should be treated. Also, since when have thread rewards been given based on the quality of writing?
"3. One Erotic Rp for true character development between two players is not enough to allow rewards for all UR rps."

Once again, when have thread rewards been given out based on the amount of character development? Sounds like your grasping at straws because you dont want UR rewards for personal reasons.
"4. Apart from Erotic RP, there isn't anything you can do in the UR that you normally can't in the main forums. There is no blood, gore, or pain in SAO."

Awesome, sounds like the threads should get the same rewards then, seeing as you can do anything you can do out of the UR in the UR.
"5. Sex isn't needed for romantic development between two characters. No one is getting pregnant and starting a family in SAO either."

Thats certainly a nice opinion, but has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

"6. The UR has never counted for rewards, and was not meant for regular use as this site is meant to be PG 13+ "

*looks at rules* I see nothing that says the UR has never counted for rewards. In fact, i see something about getting a staff member to link your thread to your journal if it doesnt have erotic content and you want rewards. Plus, if it wasnt meant for regular use and you guys dont want to support it, why have it in the first place? Im serious when i say this, if you guys feel that way, get rid of it.

1 hour ago, Life said:

"You can be rewarded for doing nothing outside of UR" This is true, however these types of RPS can vary over a vast range of different types of RPS. The UR only covers erotic, one type. 

What? " Apart from Erotic RP, there isn't anything you can do in the UR that you normally can't in the main forums." I see a contradiction.

 

[Rain 0]

Okay... seriously what is all this hate on UR threads? Why are staff so intent on not giving threads that have all the requirements for completion be completed and be given the rewards it should - like a normal thread? Yes, it goes against the whole PG-13 thing. I completely understand that. There's some here, literally, giving options on how to go around that. A way to still keep the threads away from those of under age. I see no reason for there to be transparency for readers if they can't even get into the thread in the first place. This entire hate on UR threads is just down right biased. Quality of UR threads lower? Biased. The whole physical intimacy between people isn't needed in a romantic relationship is also complete bs and again... biased. For one thing, physical intimacy is a BIG part in a relationship. One of the meanings of being physical with someone is you want to get to know them more, you want to be closer to them. The whole holding hands, hugging, touching, kissing, caressing, and yes... sex is all part of building a relationship. They're signals between two people that want to get closer to each other. You will never keep a relationship if you can never get physical with them.

Here's a link if you want to read more on what I mean. http://www.5lovelanguages.com/2009/03/speaking-love-through-physical-touch/

Also... I wanna bring your attention to what Tristan wrote... A little something he dug up. >>Here<<

Edited June 7, 2016 by Rain

[Crimsa 0]

I would also like to point out that not only were suggestions made, but I offered to look over the UR threads myself as I understand that some would be uncomfortable with reviewing them. But I guess Personal, biased, opinions. Rule over logic:(

[Erroneous 0]

This issue has become a topic for discussion lately that I wonder if anyone's even aware of the impracticality it actually provides.

While the general idea of SAO-RPG was to make it a kid's friendly site so as to appeal to our targeted audience i.e. kids who watched the anime. We created this site with that in mind and hence everyone throws out "PG-13" site and not an erotica site. Though it became apparent that some context whether it be language, violence, sexual, demeanor, or otherwise any mature adult theme's still make a good role-play and one that can not be conveyed in a PG-13 environment. And SAO the anime was no stranger to some of these themes i.e. Kirito and Asuna's night together, Kuradeel's poisoning and killing his own allies, or the whole purpose of Laughing Coffin.

Granted this site could be both at the same time and our methods of to provide both worlds to our viewers came in that of a locked section with the password given to those who consented to it.

Now here's the problem I originally wanted to make, what if the PST's or the GM's never consented to obtaining that password; whether it be moral, age, or personal choice. Then who staff-wise would validate and review said topics that are locked and hidden from their view? The UR sections were made simply as an elective place for role-players to engage in topics on a higher level, nothing more. The fact when it came to choose which sections should be allowed to gain post counts in, the UR's for SAO and ALO barely made the cut. Whereas the ones for GGO and non-SAO-RP were left out. A choice than can easily be changed based on the demand and goals of this site.

So I remind you people, just because someone is made staff, does not mean they are forced or trusted upon to be given access to this section, for all you know a 13 year old could be a staff member here and to be given that access without their permission, goes against the purpose of that section.

And if every staff declined to view that section, who would enforce it? who would give out the rewards? who would make the actions of UR valid and canon? Therefore it can not be deemed valid or canon and serves as the side story to what goes on in SAO. Much like if the SAO anime was put in a time spot between 8am to 5pm; the mentioned parts of the anime above would have to be edited out to suit a larger audience.

So think of it that way.

[Takneil 0]

Well I guess that's that, despite the fact it is shown that community want this and have proven to be providing a logical solution and reasoning. We really don't matter to you staff, this site is becoming more based on opinions and personal preferences rather than things that make sense. If you are going to have the audacity to have a support section, at least listen when the Community speaks together. Because that means, obviously something is wrong. I used to believe we as a community had a voice, now I see that we don't get a say in anything. Be damned if we disagree.

[Rain 0]

Hm.. don't think of it that way.

32 minutes ago, Erroneous said:

A choice than can easily be changed based on the demand and goals of this site.

He's basically saying it's based on the demand of the site. What really concerns him is the governing of the section. The staff (most I think) have no interest in watching over the section. Why not appoint someone who can look over that section in particular?

Edited June 7, 2016 by Rain

[Crimsa 0]

@Rain I said this before, I offered to do that. Never got feedback, Sorry. Feedback that actually made logical sense. You know, I have been on the wrong side of the line many times when it comes to staff rulings. But it is so dumb that they are actually fighting this, we have 100% solid logic, reasoning, and on top of everything. the arguments they provide are biased, make no sense, and overall. Ridiculous, half the stuff that was argued was from personal opinion. I wouldn't be standing my ground if they gave a ruling that made sense and couldn't easily be solved. No, they would rather have something so minute be broken and fight about it for what I promise will be for months instead of simply swallowing their pride. 

[Crimsa 0]

Opinion:  a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge. [Because clearly this word is unknown to staff.]

Biased:  unfairly prejudiced for or against someone or something.

Prejudice: preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.

Preconceived:  (of an idea or opinion) formed before having the evidence for its truth or usefulness. 

Prideful:  having or showing arrogant superiority to and disdain of those one views as unworthy. 

Learn these words staff, I'm going to burn them into you. Rulings should NEVER be made off these, and frankly you are better than this. You have no true argument here, we have given you working solutions, yet. You say no, when we ask why. You basically are flipping us off, saying "Because I said so.". The Community has spoken, called you out on your BS. but you are too Prideful to accept the fact that your rulings are Biased, your opinion's harms others with insults, claiming it takes no skill to write erotica when clearly that is a load of crap. Instead of acting like arrogant children, grow up. Accept your mistake and allow us to move on, or this will never go away.

[Avilon 0]

Frankly there doesn't seem to be an issue as most kids grow up as Sword Art Online has hit multiple generations. And as staff we are expected to listen to the players even if none of use agree on it. If a majority frankly vote it seems silly to stop them. I'm not gonna debate argue against what Crimsa is saying as frankly the UR section either shouldn't exist if it is sorta pointless as most people can UR and publish it to people if they want or just keep in in private like many do.

[Nikodemus_Blackwood 1]

First, I'd like to point out that SAO is a show with themes of a more mature nature. People live, love, and DIE. It's simple fact. The fact you created a UR section in the first place meant it was to be utilized, so rewards should be granted equally. Crimsa has said she'd view it and deal with it for you staff. I am more than sure others would. I would even do, and I don't use UR. If you don't like UR or want to reward players for using it, remove it. Take it away so it's not an issue, but also put a stop to social RPs like boss meetings, bar chats, and anything where the dice roller isn't used. It's only fair. Or else more people will leave, and this site will dry up.

 

I don't care if this ever black lists me being staff, but if the staff want to have less friction with players, stop trying to start the fire  your selves and LISTEN to what the community wants. it makes things better.

[Life 0]

Saying there is no transparency between those in UR and those out of it is not biased. Those who do not have access to the UR section will not see how the UR player have got their rewards. This will create hostility between players and if a player is not 18+ they will (or rather) should not be given access to that section for clear reasons. It is not biased to side with the law. 

Furthermore you claim it is what they community wants, however only the people who know about this topic have voted on it, majority being the ones who do want it. And even then, nearly 40% say they do not want it. That is not large enough to warrant any changes or to say we are not listening to our community. We have heard your reasons, and have given ours. As for crimsas offer for viewing these topics, you would first have to become staff before it is even considered. 

We do not hate or have 'prejudice' towards UR threads, as they wouldn't have been created in the first place if we weren't listening to our community. We are not removing it, we are not changing it. We are keeping it as it has always been. 

If you do not see the reasoning behind the words then that is of your own fault, i could just as easily claim bias because that is all you desire to role-play. I would suggest moving on to an erotic site rather than causing commotion on a PG 13 site. 

[Erroneous 0]

8 minutes ago, Nikodemus_Blackwood said:

if the staff want to have less friction with players, stop trying to start the fire  your selves and LISTEN to what the community wants. it makes things better.

I myself am not directly involved with the staff team, the rules, or enforcement of this site as I merely provide the financial and technical support to this site; however I can not walk away from that statement.

There mere fact, if that's what you honestly believe, should be straight forward that you yourself are not ready to join the staff team. I don't recall the last time I seen a staff team on a website that intentionally went out it's way to harass, embarrass, or harm it's users. Staff is voluntary here, you opt to join to provide a better and equal place of opportunity for those you work for, non-staff.

The statement you made questions me if you understand the ramification or the infrastructure involved with amending new rules and features on a site. Revolving around the total number of staff on the team as a whole, those available to dedicate their focus on let's say journals, evaluations, rewards, quests, disputes, reports, scams, checks, dice roll validations, logs, public relations, etc.. and that's just the staff who work to maintain where we are currently at.

What about those staff who work to move the site actually forward instead of just to stay afloat? The ones behind events, changes, training, new dynamics, developing new lore, testing out new features, posting new content and having staff proof said content before releasing publicly, voting on new ideas, and etc...

Then finally, the staff that sit down to work with brand new users to the site who need help understanding what this site is and how to navigate, how to post, and want to give this site a try and to have a staff member hold their hand and walk them through each step to ensure that they don't walk away, get things wrong to create conflict with seasoned players, and to genuinely feel welcomed.

To me, the staff is stretched as it is already and the fact some events are being suspended until a verdict is to be reached tells me they do listen and they do care. But you like many are hasty and want immediate actions, actions without stopping a second and stepping back to review things thoroughly seems more trouble than it's worth and could create a horrible community rather than a good one.

Maybe communications are lacking and  aren't the best, but to say this staff isn't doing things to make things better, that's insulting.

[Nikodemus_Blackwood 1]

So, Erroneous, your saying that Life intentionally "making Takniel's conversations private" simply because he is the main brunt of this whole issue is not a staff harassing or abusing another player? Cause it it's mate. He is using his status as a GM to prevent any bad light being put on him for disagreeing with Takniel/Crimsa.

 

That there is the point I made about staff causing friction with players. this sentiment has been made before, and Shark tried to rectify it via the Community's Reps, who have gone ignored as OUR voice. it's the players that make the site what it is. You should take that into consideration. You want the WHOLE communities opinion? Put it to a real vote. Make a sticky thread voting this issue. See what everyone has to say.

 

Lastly. Call me "unready to join staff" but last I checked, Life has shown nothing but I mature actions there, and violating our rights as users to have free speech.

[Life 0]

1 minute ago, Nikodemus_Blackwood said:

So, Erroneous, your saying that Life intentionally "making Takniel's conversations private" simply because he is the main brunt of this whole issue is not a staff harassing or abusing another player? Cause it it's mate. He is using his status as a GM to prevent any bad light being put on him for disagreeing with Takniel/Crimsa.

 

That there is the point I made about staff causing friction with players. this sentiment has been made before, and Shark tried to rectify it via the Community's Reps, who have gone ignored as OUR voice. it's the players that make the site what it is. You should take that into consideration. You want the WHOLE communities opinion? Put it to a real vote. Make a sticky thread voting this issue. See what everyone has to say.

 

Lastly. Call me "unready to join staff" but last I checked, Life has shown nothing but I mature actions there, and violating our rights as users to have free speech.

If i recall correctly i was specifically singled out for giving feedback simply because of my title as GM. And stop saying "whole community" the "whole community" you're referring to isn't even 60% of the votes. We have heard what you had to say, we gave our piece. Anything leaving this thread in regards to the issue is overstepping and as such I have to act appropriately. I am not hiding my 'disagreements' with crimsa, anyone with access to this thread is free to see it.

Your attempts at trying to tarnish my reputation are commendable though. 

It is issues like this that prevent staff from actually making real progress on important tasks. Remember that we are volunteers.