Prison

[Grave 0]

In the world of SAO, there are two ways to claim bounties and get rid of orange players for good or a short time; death or imprisonment. At one point we see Kirito use a corridor portal to take Rosalia and the members of Titan's Hand to the prison on the first floor so they would be unable to kill further.

In our site, though, the only way to claim bounties and stop orange players from killing is to kill them instead. And since death is both in and out of the game, it's almost exactly like murdering a murderer IRL, which isn't something we do without punishment. So I am thinking that for those who wish to apprehend orange players, but do not wish to kill, a prison should be implemented. Any thoughts on this?

 

[Rain 0]

Aye

I know some red players though, and what they did was justifiable (wanted the item in quest). So yeah... perhaps we could add trials into the mix.

[Grave 0]

Ahh, yeah, would also be good for those that killed quest NPCs, because no one really wants to kill someone who didn't take an actual life.

[Kalesh 0]

As someone whose latest outburst may have inspired this support ticket, the main issue is how would it be RPd for the person who has been imprisoned? Not a lot a person can do with "Got food, slept in cell, did some exercise" Y'know? I mean, visitations and prisoner quarrels is an option I suppose.

Odds are a lot of people would also want to pull a jailbreak, which could be interesting or awful depending on how its executed, and at worst could invalidate the prison-ing entirely xD

[Nikodemus_Blackwood 1]

So, to answer @Kalesh, It could be worked that if someone is an Orange player (Not a PKer as they are technically RED in the anime. Orange players are people who harm NPCs and bring non-lethal damage to bear against a player outside of safezones/duels. This is shown when Kirito mentions that smacking Rosalia around would give him an Orange cursor for a week or so, where as Laughing Coffin are not Orange, and they do not lose their cursor after a week. Once you kill a player, your red permanently.

 

So, for those of us who attack but don't kill an NPC or Player, we'd be given an orange cursor and either must not RP in PP/OP for a period of time, or be apprehended and thrown in jail.

 

Once in jail, we can either wait out our sentence. (a 21 RP thread showing we do our time), or we can utilize the Escape quest idea and create a unique quest in the Prions subforum that forces us to literally jailbreak ourselves and escape. If we choose option 2, we keep the orange cursor for 2 times as long, and if caught again, cannot break out and must wait double the jail time.

 

Then, we change PKers, actual PKers, to Red Cursors, and then the rules are normal. Only go back to green via <<Redemption>> quest, or be a PKer and risk harm/death in an KE threads.

 

As for the threads, Players will then be able to go Orange in NK threads (as they aren't killing someone. Just harming them.) but not Red.

[Hirru 0]

Unfortunately, for that idea one would have to indefinitely quit that character for X amount of time.  It would effectively be a soft ban for that character, as they wouldn't have any method of getting out.  Out of the entire history of the game, there wasn't any kind of mentioning of jail breaks from the Black Palace prison (where everyone was sent).  Even Laughing Coffin couldn't get out, and they were the most skilled in getting out of a situation silently.  Though, there were very vague evidence to prove that part..

Now, with Niko's thoughts: Orange tag meant any kind of criminal act had been committed by the individual.  Just touching an NPC wrong, or for too long, could give you an orange tag.  The time in which one had an orange tag usually ranged from a few minutes to several days, depending on the severity of the crime and the amount of consecutive crimes committed before.  Killing was an indefinite orange tag that couldn't be removed.  The term "Red Player / Red Guild" was from the community as the red tag was for Monsters only, and killing someone was deemed monstrous, as murder is always seen.

Edited June 10, 2016 by Hirru

[Rain 0]

Oh right... how come, there are only orange and green players? Never red? I keep calling PKers red since it's what I know... from the anime anyways, why is that out of the system here?

[Kalesh 0]

Because red is a nickname, not an actual system from SAO. In SAO There is green (innocent) and orange (not-innocent). They are called reds, but their icons are orange. A perma-orange is just called a red.

Edit: It's like Beater. Just something the players call someone, nothing to do with the game itself.

Edited June 10, 2016 by Kalesh

[Rain 0]

Just now, Kalesh said:

Because red is a nickname, not an actual system from SAO. In SAO There is green (innocent) and orange (not-innocent). They are called reds, but their icons are orange. A perma-orange is just called a red.

Could've sworn I saw red...

Ahh.. looked it up... the red's on a boar.. -_- kk 

[Kalesh 0]

Yeah, monster icons vary by power though, which is neat. Like pink is weak and black is 'Run. Now.' difficulty.

[Opal 0]

And if said player did not wish to be put in Jail? What then? Take Calrex for example; he is a Super Tank. He goes Orange and we have this Prison System. Is anyone gonna go up to him and say, "hey, you gotta go to jail now." And he would be like "No, I think not." You'd either need to create a massive army to take him down, but in that case, why would he want to RP with anyone in a thread if he was marked? And since we might have NK-KE Threads now, he can simply state he does not wish to join said thread and walk away. 

Prison system sounds neat on paper, but unless you FORCE the player to go, you really have nothing that can be done. 

[Grave 0]

Black is basically the Fatal Scythe XD But yes, red is simply a nickname to display a player's 'danger factor'.

[Grave 0]

3 minutes ago, Opal said:

And if said player did not wish to be put in Jail? What then? Take Calrex for example; he is a Super Tank. He goes Orange and we have this Prison System. Is anyone gonna go up to him and say, "hey, you gotta go to jail now." And he would be like "No, I think not." You'd either need to create a massive army to take him down, but in that case, why would he want to RP with anyone in a thread if he was marked? And since we might have NK-KE Threads now, he can simply state he does not wish to join said thread and walk away. 

Prison system sounds neat on paper, but unless you FORCE the player to go, you really have nothing that can be done. 

That's where Corridor Crystals come in! If they were implemented, a player could set up a Corridor in a subtle location and take the orange player through with them into the Black Iron Palace.

[Opal 0]

16 minutes ago, Grave said:

That's where Corridor Crystals come in! If they were implemented, a player could set up a Corridor in a subtle location and take the orange player through with them into the Black Iron Palace.

If we had something like that, players would grow paranoid and overly suspicious of the player leading them somewhere. If I was said player, I would be fighting and not following. 

[Grave 0]

Well, something to consider at least XD Because then at least the KoB can deal justice without becoming killers themselves.

[Nikodemus_Blackwood 1]

Well, like you said @Opal, it is a neat idea on paper. It would be difficult to do, but the main basis would be that it is simply site rules and to refuse to follow them would constitute warning actions. The other thing is that if anyone tries to stay out of any type of thread, NK/KE PP/OP, then they'd not progress in story or anything as an Orange player could be apprehended in ANY thread. If they don't participate in IC threads for a time, that counts as them being Solo for the time and then after said time they'd lose their Orange cursor.

 

The issue as stated by @Baldur is that there is no way to distinguish the crime and how terrible it is/how long the punishment should be. That is the real issue. How do we determine how long someone has an orange cursor? It's one of those annoying catch 22s...

[Baldur 0]

Well, canonically, I believe it works this way:

1) If you attack a green player, your cursor turns orange for a short time
2) If you kill a green player, your cursor turns orange permanently.

We have the redemption quest as a 1 time safety net to come back into the fold.

With a prison mechanic, it's basically forcing someone to say "hey, you gotta do this jail break thread before you can create any new RP threads" which I think people wouldn't like, but it could work as an alternative to killing another player. Basically if you have this item equipped, and you get the killing blow on another player, you can say "I use a Prison Crystal on them." They don't die, they go to the prison, where they can once and only once accept this annoying quest.

[Kalesh 0]

23 hours ago, Baldur said:

Well, canonically, I believe it works this way:

1) If you attack a green player, your cursor turns orange for a short time
2) If you kill a green player, your cursor turns orange permanently.

We have the redemption quest as a 1 time safety net to come back into the fold.

With a prison mechanic, it's basically forcing someone to say "hey, you gotta do this jail break thread before you can create any new RP threads" which I think people wouldn't like, but it could work as an alternative to killing another player. Basically if you have this item equipped, and you get the killing blow on another player, you can say "I use a Prison Crystal on them." They don't die, they go to the prison, where they can once and only once accept this annoying quest.

Not true. Canonically theft, assault, and I think trying to forcefully move NPCs to different locations all grant you an orange cursor.
Secondly killing is not the only way to become red, you can never kill anybody and still become a 'red'. After the fourth 'sin' let's call it where your crystal goes from green to orange, you are then orange until you do a quest. If you do the quest and sin AGAIN then you are permanently orange. The death of a player is just a shortcut to that final stage.

And as far as RP goes, while it does seem odd to willingly go to jail for any reason, it's not like the player is required to stay in prison. Parole is a thing, and a significantly more powerful player could ask a prisoner to 'work off their crimes' essentially. Gathering items for a guild for example, working as a smith, not being allowed to leave a guild-guarded safe zone without an escort. You can manually empty a player's inventory of dangerous items and teleport crystals by moving their hand like with sleeping-death-duels. For stronger players however it would be a bit harder, and martial art users harder still.

So while the act of entering jail would be a bit odd, the road to escaping despite obstacles could make for an interesting scenario if you ask me.

Edited June 13, 2016 by Kalesh

[Baldur 0]

33 minutes ago, Kalesh said:

Not true. Canonically theft, assault, and I think trying to forcefully move NPCs to different locations all grant you an orange cursor.
Secondly killing is not the only way to become red, you can never kill anybody and still become a 'red'. After the fourth 'sin' let's call it where your crystal goes from green to orange, you are then orange until you do a quest. If you do the quest and sin AGAIN then you are permanently orange. The death of a player is just a shortcut to that final stage.

And as far as RP goes, while it does seem odd to willingly go to jail for any reason, it's not like the player is required to stay in prison. Parole is a thing, and a significantly more powerful player could ask a prisoner to 'work off their crimes' essentially. Gathering items for a guild for example, working as a smith, not being allowed to leave a guild-guarded safe zone without an escort. You can manually empty a player's inventory of dangerous items and teleport crystals by moving their hand like with sleeping-death-duels. For stronger players however it would be a bit harder, and martial art users harder still.

So while the act of entering jail would be a bit odd, the road to escaping despite obstacles could make for an interesting scenario if you ask me.

I understand where you're coming from, but creating a successful mechanic for this, while also making sense lore wise, is simply not realistic. While your parole idea might make logical sense, it doesn't make sense from an in universe perspective. Players don't have control someone going from orange to green, so they couldn't have you complete your parole. 

You're also missing the part where you're restricting a players ability to RP except in a prison sentence. And if you don't, then they have no reason to do it.

I like the goal you're trying to work towards, I just don't see a feasible, fun way to do it.

[Kalesh 0]

@Baldur I think I should clarify that completing parole and/or going from orange to green was not something I suggested in any way, but rather the equivalent of making your prisoners work, like how in real life they might man the cafeterias or otherwise perform labor, and then in SAO escape.

And I am not so much missing it so much as being under the opinion that I don't see the issue with that. Quests are essentially the same thing to begin with but short-term. Being in that situation is only as monotonous as those roleplaying make it, a creative mind makes the restrictions a secondary concern, and an escape system of some sort would be interesting in my opinion.

And yeah, I do agree it's not feasible since people enjoy freedom, that's just natural. Fun is a matter of perspective and opinion though.