Grapple - New PvP Crowd Control Mechanic.

[Husky 0]

This is something that I had thought of a while back, and also something I wanted to be implemented into the game.

The Idea is very self explanatory. In combat versus another Player (either NPC control, or actual players), you can ran up to them and attempt to tackle. It works like a stun, but applied on both the user as well as the target. The user will need to roll a successful Battle Die to grapple the enemy, and as long as they are grapple, you can hold them down, decrease their Evade stat to 0, as well as your own. At anytime during the grappling, the user can let go of their target; however, as soon as you let go, the Evade debuff will be nullified to both party. Any other crowd control effects such as Stun, Paralysis or Freeze would cancel the grapple, freeing the enemy from the user's grasp. 

While being grapple, the enemy must roll a Crafting Die to attempt to break free.  A CD of 6+ is the standard to escape a player without MA. However, escaping difficulty will increase based of MA rank of the user, and for every rank that the User invested into MA, the CD roll is increased by 1, 2 if MA is Grand-Mastered. (The result will be a CD of 12+ for a player without Martial Art to escape a player with Grand-Master Martial Art). However, the Dice roll will also be affected by the enemy's Martial Art rank. For every rank invest, the CD die will be subtracted by 1, to a minimum of 1. Therefore, a Grand-Master Martial Artists would need CD of 7+ to escape the grasp of another Grand-Martial Artist. Furthermore, <<Athletic>> and <<Sprint and Acrobatic>> Armor mod could also contribute to escaping, each giving +1 CD in struggling.

To recap

Quote

A CD of 6+ is the standard to escape a normal player without Martial Art grapple
A CD of 12+ is needed for a player with no armor mod or Martial Art to break free from a Grand-Master Martial Artist
A CD of 10+ is needed for a player with armor mod and no Martial Art to break free from a Grand-Master Martial Artist
A CD of 7+ Is needed for Grand-Master Martial Artist with no armor mod to break free from a Grand-Master Martial Artist
A CD of 5+ Is needed for Grand-Master Martial Artist with armor mod to break free from a Grand-Master Martial Artist

Using the Ability would put it on a cool down of 5 turns, and cost ( 5 * MA Rank) Energy, at a minimum of 5 Energy. Additionally, for every turn holding the player down, it would cost the user extra 5 Energy per turn. If the player have less energy than the requirement, they will be force to let their target go. 

Edited April 10, 2017 by Husky
Adding information provided by Ariel and Baldur.

[Ariel - The Crowned Lion 0]

This sounds as a nice idea but only in using the duel system, like a duel 'mod'. In actual free combat I see it giving a too great advantage in a '1 vs group' situations, for the group of course. I'd say this is in the general direction of what @Baldur and @Takao plan for the MA skill for 3.0, to have it be used alongside one handed weapons.

You should increase the difficulty to break free for 2 handed weapon users as... well, both their hands would be busy holding the weapon. Maybe think about having the Athletics and Sprint & Acrobatics mods in the mix since they're like 'avatar enhancement' mods.

But I like the idea, it provides the MA skill some much needed utility except as a requisite for certain SAs and the balance seems fair enough; though I'd give a little more advantage to the grappled party as the one initiating the attack has to work harder to grapple and maintain the grip while the other just needs to 'shake it off'. Maybe add a +1 CD value for each of those two mods I mentioned (like MA ranks do). So in this case:

4 hours ago, Husky said:

a player without Martial Art to escape a player with Grand-Master Martial Art)

The result will be a CD of 10+ for^ (if I got understand it right)

4 hours ago, Husky said:

a Grand-Master Martial Artists would need CD of 7+ to escape the grasp of another Grand-Martial Artist 

this will still apply(?)

[Husky 0]

3 hours ago, Ariel - The Crowned Lion said:

This sounds as a nice idea but only in using the duel system, like a duel 'mod'. In actual free combat I see it giving a too great advantage in a '1 vs group' situations, for the group of course. I'd say this is in the general direction of what @Baldur and @Takao plan for the MA skill for 3.0, to have it be used alongside one handed weapons.

The idea of having it as a mod only for dueling is a good touch for balancing, but that wasn't really what I planned for. Since in a one vs one duel, there're no real reason why someone would use this, since it doesn't gain any bonuses, and the crowd control effect applied to both players. The purpose of this was to add some aspect of realism into Role Play, since there's practically no reason why you couldn't run up and hold someone down.

With that being said, it does give a large advantage to a group of PK trying to attack an individual, since one with high MA rank can ran up and grab the person while the others wail away. 

4 hours ago, Ariel - The Crowned Lion said:

You should increase the difficulty to break free for 2 handed weapon users as... well, both their hands would be busy holding the weapon. Maybe think about having the Athletics and Sprint & Acrobatics mods in the mix since they're like 'avatar enhancement' mods.

I like this bits you mentioned. I over looked the mods for armor, hence didn't mention it. It's a great additional detail to add for the skill.

[Baldur 0]

I'm not a huge fan of grappling. I've never seen it done well in a system and I've played a lot. In your example if i had MA. I could run up to someone and grapple them with a 1 in 12 chance of them getting out. Then, since if i let go i get a free attack the same turn i could stun someone. Then grab them until their stun immunity wears off, then stun them again until they either get pissed off and quit the site or die.

As real as SAO is, you're not actually attacking the players. You're targeting them with a lock on system, and getting into a pose to tell the computer which move in your roster to activate.

I can see where you're coming from, but i don't see grappling as a system adding good things to our combat system

[Husky 0]

1 hour ago, Baldur said:

I'm not a huge fan of grappling. I've never seen it done well in a system and I've played a lot. In your example if i had MA. I could run up to someone and grapple them with a 1 in 12 chance of them getting out. Then, since if i let go i get a free attack the same turn i could stun someone. Then grab them until their stun immunity wears off, then stun them again until they either get pissed off and quit the site or die.

I get where you're going at, but I believe I should clarify something.

When you grapple someone, both you and your opponent will be applied the same debuff, and the same thing goes when you let go, you and your opponent will have the debuff removed at the same time. That's not to mention that an attack will be needed to successfully land for you to grapple, taking in Evasion as a valid factor. The same thing would apply to the part where you let go to attack. 

However, if this were still not enough to balance the attack, there's always room to fix. A cool down timer could be add to avoid spamming grapple consecutively, and freeing the player from the move would require an action post, removing the "attacking in the same turn" feature.

The reason why I want it to be implement was to add some realism into the actual gameplay, since there're nothing really stopping you from stopping an opponent either by tackle or grapple onto them. Also, like Ariel say, it also give players an incentive to learn Martial Art for the skill, not just to boost their damage by unlocking some specific Sword Arts. But then again, I could be wrong.

[Ariel - The Crowned Lion 0]

I forgot to say that you should add some major energy consumption to it. Maybe even more than sword arts as this could be something used for stalling for time and tiring both you and you opponent. Again, more the initiator than the target.

[Husky 0]

12 hours ago, Ariel - The Crowned Lion said:

I forgot to say that you should add some major energy consumption to it. Maybe even more than sword arts as this could be something used for stalling for time and tiring both you and you opponent. Again, more the initiator than the target.

That could also be implemented to give some restriction to being able to hold someone down indefinitely. The user would suffer an initial Energy cost scaling with their MA rank, and another Energy cost for every turn they keep the hold on the target. 

[Baldur 0]

It's still operating as effectively a sustainable (even if you shorten it) stun. One in which 2 hand users are also at a severe disadvantage to, since there is no point to take it as 2 hand users.

It also becomes a more effective means of tanking than the tanking skills. You just grapple the target until it's dead. We are quickly reaching a point where it becomes incredibly complicated, and begins to not resemble the intended purpose.

[Macradon 0]

Something something thorns?
How would that interact?