The Profession system - new ideas!

[Cindel 0]

The recent post about the Merchant profession, which I agree does need some help, motivated me to start a similar thread for the performer. But from that I started reviewing the other professions and well, it sort of escalated.

This thread primarily focuses on the Performer, Merchant and Cook professions in an attempt to make them more interesting to RP and desired by other players. The current system is very skewed between each professions effectiveness and uses. Let’s do a quick recap of the current professions.

(Note: This evaluation is a game mechanics evaluation not uses for RP)

The Permanent Item crafters:

Blacksmith:

Right now the hands down most useful profession is Blacksmith. It can cover all 3 of the allocated character equipment slots and is the only profession that can make weapons.

Tailor:

Useful. But it is just a weaker version of blacksmith. Offers nothing that blacksmith can’t already do and unlike blacksmith, cannot make weapons.

Artisan:

Useful. But now we have an even weaker version of both Blacksmith and Tailor. While Blacksmiths can make Weapons and Armor, Tailors can make Armor, Artificers can only make accessories.

From my understanding each character is allowed 3 equipable items at a given time. One slot is obviously reserved for a weapon. Another for armor, though you *could* skip this and take two accessories. Finally you have one open slot for whatever. (most likely here is where you equip an accessory.) So like stated above, the Smith is completely self sufficient able to cover all forms of desired equipment. The tailor can cover two and the Artificer just one.

The Consumable Item crafters:

Alchemist: They seem useful, consumable items are always important when you need that extra boost or things don’t go your way. Unlike the permanent item crafters I haven’t seen a system to follow when crafting potions however.

Cook: I actually don’t really know anything about this, all I could find is that they can make food for RP and situationally increases your luck. (no idea what that means)

Performer: Crafts monster grenades. They are good and useful but that’s all they do. Not really fitting to the concept behind the profession.

The Merchant:

This one has been brought up a lot. They don’t really serve a purpose currently really.

:geek: -=Suggestions!=- :geek:

So with the intent of trying to make each profession desirable and balanced from the mechanics standpoint of the game, I decided to start this thread and toss out some ideas. First, the ‘Shops’ section itself is hard to navigate through. Everything is listed as [sHOP-FX] (which is a little unnecessary since the forum itself is already ‘Shops’) This makes finding the actual crafter you want a little difficult. You either have to know their craft by player name or hope they named their shop with something that actually depicts the type of craft they do. Some players do, a lot don’t. My first suggestion is changing the forum format to:

[Forge-FX] - used by Blacksmiths.

[Tailor-FX] - used by Tailors.

[Tinker-FX] - used by Artisans.

[Diner-FX] - used by Cooks.

[Tavern-FX] - used by Performers.

[Alchemist-FX] - used by Alchemists.

[shop-FX] - used by Merchants.

The actual names are unimportant (if people don’t like these.) But those headers let players know what type of shop is in each thread by just glancing through the forum. Now to the individual professions themselves.

Blacksmith:

This one unfortunately probably needs a slight nerf. Removing their access to create accessory type items or armor that isn’t really armor. Example: Helmets, Shoulder guard, Bracers, Shin guards etc… All these items can count as non-armor items, accessories basically and still be used on top of actual armor. Sure they don’t give you any armor bonus like the actual armor does but this lets blacksmiths get away with crafting everything they need by themselves.

I suggest limiting blacksmiths to creating weapons and armor type equipment only. Which reduces the maximum slots they can create gear for to Two. They could still create all that other stuff for cosmetic and RP situations, but they would not be entitled to receive any enhancement bonuses on items that don't qualify as weapons or armor (tradeskill equipment aside).

Tailor:

With the above changes to blacksmith, Tailor should be perfectly fine how it is. They can craft Armor and accessories. That’s gear for Two slots, on par with the Blacksmith now.

Artisan:

With tailors being able to make accessories but Artisan’s unable to make armor they need a slight boost. I’d suggest something on the lines of engineering, gizmos and gadgets. These items could have special utility effects. This of course will require some effort on the staff to create templates for them like the current weapon / armor one. Having access to accessories and new utility items gives them Two main functions just like the above professions.

Alchemy:

Alchemist should be fine but I think we need a creation template for them so people have a better understanding of what they can create. Just like the ones for Weapons and armor. Since alchemy is unique in that its the only skill that can create in combat consumables, it is still desirable despite only having one function.

Merchant:

Seldentar’s idea for merchant to me, was a good one. As viewed here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3792 I agree with it and suggest pretty much the same mechanics with a little addition. Merchants can exchange items or materials for new items or materials of a different type. From a roleplay standpoint you go to a merchant with sword A and you comission them to find you sword B which has different stats. Using their trade network and connections they eventually find a match (based on the roll system) and provide you with your changed item. They can charge a commission to do this, and how many times they do it per day is limited by the same craft system. As an RP addition, I would allow the merchant to rename the new item, as the old one was technically traded away.

In addition to items however they can do a mat exchange as well. Which would work slightly differently. You may have 6 boar skins but were hoping to have a new sword crafted. Obviously boar skin isn’t really a component for that. You visit a merchant and they can attempt to change the Skins into Ore instead. My idea is something on the lines of: Each exchange costs a minimum of 2 mats of type A. The merchant then attempts an exchange based on the roll system. The roll would detail the level of success the merchant had finding a suitable exchange. a 12 could yield double the mats. Example: your 6 boar skins became 12 iron ore. A low roll however could suggest Boar skins weren’t really in demand and they were only able to get you 4 Iron ore.

The amount of mats the customer wants to wager could be up to them, but each attempt would cost one of the merchants craft attempt limits per day. So bulk orders are better for additional attempts but also have the highest risk of loss. The actual details of the roll system would have to be created, the numbers I used here were simply for concept.

Performer: (had originally just planned to write about this, so its a little more extensive)

The current rules for the Performer profession, though useful via the game mechanics is well, a little boring and has very little interactivity with other players. Which in my opinion, for what a performer is - should be the primary focus of the profession.

The monster grenades that they create are powerful, maybe even too powerful. The performer guide mentions ‘monsters’ in plural to describe its effect. If these grenades do hit multiple targets, they are essentially an Area of Effect paralyze in terms of mechanics, lasting 2-3 turns depending on the quality. I’m not aware of any diminishing return mechanic, ie using grenades over and over to keep mobs locked down, which with multiple players would be easy enough to do. That does seem extremely powerful.

-EDIT:

Monster Grenades are basically 'Tank Grenades' that draw monster hate/aggro once thrown. So, in the case of a Perfect, you needn't worry about that monster attacking you for 3 turns. Naturally, a 3 turn limit would make this weapon extremely well suited for use against Boss type monsters that will be alive for several turns.

Reference: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2172&start=240#p69459

(OK reading that, they force the monsters to attack a the grenade. I still don't see how functionally that makes it any different than the effects paralyze would have, except for the possibility of a longer duration)

The current guide also states this:

“Basically you get to be the life of the party or have a way to make cash by playing short songs for people or recording them. Perfomers can attract, or pull, and repel, or push, away enemies with your voice.â€

But makes no mention to how one actually does this unless it is simply referring to the grenades, which only really does one of those things. Or this is just supposed to be a purely RP attribute to be used however a player wishes on player generated monsters?

Finally the guide mentions charging for shows and spectacles. Where other players can come and pay you to put on a show. But there are no mechanics to support this. You’re basically paying someone to RP with you, which of course you don’t have to or need to do anywhere else.

I think the grenades should be removed, they just don’t really seem to have any RP benefit. I’m guessing they were made so that performers had something to create like, the other professions do. But with the other changes I propose, they’re not needed.

So what then could a Performer do?

Perform!

Well just like the current guide says, “charge for shows, spectacles and the such.†So we need a reason for people to want to pay for these. That reason could be a morale buff. Players can pay a performer to do a performance for them.

Just like with other trades how successful their performance is would be based on the crafting dice. A successful performance however would bestow a bonus to the player who watched it. That morale bonus could then be used to give +1 bonus to that players BD or CD rolls. The duration in which the bonus lasts could be post length = Skill tier. So a novice performer’s bonus is only good for a single post where as a 5th tier performer’s would last 5 posts.

Now since there is no linear timeline in forum RP and players can be involved in multiple threads, keeping track of when its used would be too difficult to say “next X posts.†Instead the successful performance can yield a consumable item [Entertaining Memories] or something similar. The player who received the item can use it when they’re ready, but once they do the the bonus applies to the next X posts they make in the thread they used it. A player could only ever have one [Entertaining Memories] at a time, so you couldn’t stack them to save up buffs for a big boss battle or anything.

This gives both combatants and crafters a reason to visit the performers [Tavern] to sit back and relax, enjoy a show and hopefully get a nice buff out of it for a slight bonus in combat or crafting.

However since many players may have chosen Performer for the combat bonus it currently gives via grenades, we shouldn't ignore some kind of function there too. For that I suggest the following:

Banshee’s lament: This would be an ability that pretty much functions exactly the same as the current grenades do, however only the performer can do it. The wording would need to change or the performer would get clobbered, think of it more as the mobs are stunned from the sound. The in game effects however remain the same. It cannot be traded to other players.

In addition, a performer could choose to forgo attacking in combat to grant a bonus to their group or penalty to their opponents by singing instead. What those are probably have to be looked at carefully as to not upset the balance of combat.

The Cook:

Another profession that currently seems a bit useless. It’s a bit hard to find a good spot for them without crossing in to what the Alchemist and the Performer provides. For starters I would add fishing as an ability of the cook and not a separate skill. This allows the cook to fish for mats in addition to other means for their trade. I have not seen a fishing system at all, so I assume it still needs to be created.

The cook could create basic meals based on their skill level. Without trying to cross over in to the realm of Alchemist, these meals could give temporary bonus effects. Depending what type of meal is created, the effects could vary following a template similar to the item enhancement one used for other crafts. Examples could be a temporary max Health boost, eating between combat to recover lost health, special food that removes long term debuffs. The GM’s would have to create such debuffs for bosses, or mini bosses to use. Example: “Ongoing Starvation†-1 to BD and CD ‘removed by consuming rare food.’ GM’s could get creative with the type of stuff they want to do, but players would have to seek out cooks for certain quality food to have them removed.

These are my ideas!

This post isn't supposed to be an exact system, each profession’s ideas I mentioned here would still need to be refined and properly documented. This is just a concept of how I think things could work better. If you actually read all of this, I applaud you and appreciate your patience!

I also apologize if I was misinformed about some of the current mechanics. Did my best to look in to them. But I'm still pretty new and I could have gotten something wrong.

Edit: Added Poll

[Zeke 0]

Still no love for fishing even in the suggestions. 3 XD

[Cindel 0]

I merged fishing with cooking. Read the cooking section. I didn't forget about it! Just didn't bother mentioning it in the list.

[Zeke 0]

Ah, I see. That is at least an improvement over crafting Fishing rods all day. *laughs* Haven't finished my quest to even become a Fisher yet but at least it means more business maybe? Cha-ching! I'll edit whether or not I agree with the suggestion once I actually read it. Sorry for the unnecessary mention. *nods*

Edit: I really like the suggestion and will agree with it, but just know that you could possibly leave me out of gaining a bunch of Col. My jets and gold hot tubs and rare wine and exotic animals and rare weapons are going to have to go poof along with my new Chef's hat. :(

[Cindel 0]

I didn't bother thinking too much on how fishing would work because if its merged with cooking it will become an ability of that profession. Before I put too much time in to a sub system I'd want to see if there was first any desire for the overall concept. :)

[Guest]

This is alot of info to take in at once, and alot to chew on to, I like it , it shows how much alot of players like yourself Cindel, are wanting more out of each class, I too was going to go for Blacksmith as it covers two types of items I will ever need in my profession, as for the other professions, I agree alot, I like this and I am completely 100% down with this idea. As I also rolled a 10 so I critcally comment on this and agree.

[Rebekah 0]

I actually have been meaning to talk about the cooking profession for some time now, but I'll pick up on everything else so far.

Needs a minor nerf: Blacksmith - as stated above, too OP at the moment.

Balanced: Tailor, Artisan: once Blacksmith gets toned down a bit, all 3 of them will be balanced.

I like the merchant idea a lot, it could help out potentially on saving people time with mats, and especially if they cannot find suitable people to exchange stuff fast enough.

What I really want to focus in depth on is Cooking and/or Fishing, Alchemy, and Performer.

I really believe all 3 of them are similar in the same way as blacksmith/tailor/artisan, while those 3 give physical items and base stats, any of these 3 could give bonus boost for 1 turn/battle (depending on how we make it).

Performer:

Gives a morale boost, (+1 BD, -1 Enemy BD) etc... by being in a good mood the day before the battle, or just before. This will be very hard to track, but I think the idea is heading there, that boot.

Cooking:

This is currently a non-existent profession, what we can fix is by eating food, we can give a person a temp buff for a battle/turn. The only problem is that this seems like the alchemy, since they can heal up, give an item boost, give paralyze, etc... The starvation negative effect would be too hard to track, and too difficult.

Alchemy:

Is also a bit overpowered at the moment, since it can do give every statistical buff that is approved, so maybe it is better for stuff like, remove poison/paralyze, and give some of that, such as healing is now completely food or minor buffs along the lines, because with Alchemy the way it is, cooking is 100% expendable.

[Kirito 0]

I do like a lot of these ideas. Cook I was always thinking could have HP restoring items, like in most video games. But then again, watching someone pull out a plate of lobster and dig in in the middle of a fight is much more different in SAO. Over all, still great ideas.

[Akumu 0]

I think that the performer profession should be able to earn col too. Players who have the profession should be able to do public events and such.

Like a concert:

Requirements-

2000 col

Profession completed

A full page of before the scenes (Before you erm..perform?)

The only col you earn is the number of people that attend your concert EX: 1 person comes = 20 col and so on

JUST. IDEAS.

[Calvin 0]

I do like a lot of these ideas. Cook I was always thinking could have HP restoring items, like in most video games. But then again, watching someone pull out a plate of lobster and dig in in the middle of a fight is much more different in SAO. Over all, still great ideas.

I was thinking the same for the Cook! Also the idea of some random player just having a full on meal in a middle of combat. Just like: "Oh wait! Let me just finish my steak and we can continue our fight." Overall, I love the new ideas! Also love the graphics, it gives the post some.. pazzas. <-- I don't know.

[Guest]

I was thinking the same for the Cook! Also the idea of some random player just having a full on meal in a middle of combat. Just like: "Oh wait! Let me just finish my steak and we can continue our fight." Overall, I love the new ideas! Also love the graphics, it gives the post some.. pazzas. <-- I don't know.

True, Cooking profession does hold much potential, as does it in many other MMORPG's that I played, like FF14: A Realm Reborn, that game... I do not stress enough, has some of the best profession settings over all in any game I have ever played. It has many of the basic and advanced jobs around, I was a cook in it, and I to was always giving myself buffs on either HP, or DEF, or LUK. I never went into battle without a buff, now I do agree, pulling out a steak or lobster in battle is quite pointless, but thats why you post it in your very first post, and then go into battle, as I think that a cook should have the ability to make items that last one full misson, as such, you don't have to worry about constantly eatting food to get your desired buffs. I would also like to say that these buffs can stack, as that would be quite interesting.

[Cindel 0]

Performer:

Gives a morale boost, (+1 BD, -1 Enemy BD) etc... by being in a good mood the day before the battle, or just before. This will be very hard to track, but I think the idea is heading there, that boot.

This is pretty similar to what I'm proposing. But as you stated for Performer a time based duration is very hard if not impossible to track for forum RP. That's why I suggested the morale bonus be given in the form of a consumable, that can be applied by the player at the proper time. This is only for mechanic purposes, otherwise it would make a lot more sense to just have the buff apply immediately after watching the performance. But that doesn't translate well over the forum.

Cooking:

This is currently a non-existent profession, what we can fix is by eating food, we can give a person a temp buff for a battle/turn. The only problem is that this seems like the alchemy, since they can heal up, give an item boost, give paralyze, etc... The starvation negative effect would be too hard to track, and too difficult.

Alchemy:

Is also a bit overpowered at the moment, since it can do give every statistical buff that is approved, so maybe it is better for stuff like, remove poison/paralyze, and give some of that, such as healing is now completely food or minor buffs along the lines, because with Alchemy the way it is, cooking is 100% expendable.

I do like a lot of these ideas. Cook I was always thinking could have HP restoring items, like in most video games. But then again, watching someone pull out a plate of lobster and dig in in the middle of a fight is much more different in SAO. Over all, still great ideas.

I was thinking the same for the Cook! Also the idea of some random player just having a full on meal in a middle of combat. Just like: "Oh wait! Let me just finish my steak and we can continue our fight." Overall, I love the new ideas! Also love the graphics, it gives the post some.. pazzas. <-- I don't know.

Cooking + Alchemy: The key here is to define how each profession differs in the type of consumables they can craft. Alchemy is currently more combat focused and I suggest leaving it that way. While cooking should provide the longer duration static buffs. Also while drinking alchemy potions could be used in combat, eating food in combat would not be. In my original post I may not have been very clear. By "between combat" I literally meant after one combat encounter was complete. But before starting the next, you could use food to recover. Food related buffs should probably be small but with long duration. Alchemy buffs and effects could be more powerful but are immediate or short duration.

And thanks Calvin :)

True, Cooking profession does hold much potential, as does it in many other MMORPG's that I played, like FF14: A Realm Reborn, that game... I do not stress enough, has some of the best profession settings over all in any game I have ever played. It has many of the basic and advanced jobs around, I was a cook in it, and I to was always giving myself buffs on either HP, or DEF, or LUK. I never went into battle without a buff, now I do agree, pulling out a steak or lobster in battle is quite pointless, but thats why you post it in your very first post, and then go into battle, as I think that a cook should have the ability to make items that last one full misson, as such, you don't have to worry about constantly eatting food to get your desired buffs. I would also like to say that these buffs can stack, as that would be quite interesting.

This is more along the lines of what I'm suggesting as well.

Thanks for the feedback all - keep it coming!