Leveling and Posts

[Erroneous 0]

Our original intent was to make the workload of the Game Master staff lighter by having some aspects of the site automated. In addition making these aspects for the site quick and evolving for players. By having levels attributed to your overall posting, meant that the more you contributed and dedicated towards the site meant that your character too grows. And why not, the highest leveled players should be the ones with the most dedicated time and number of role-plays written, and this to us made your posting achievements an accomplishment in itself.

Whereas quality by posts to determine levels, meant adding one more chore to the Game Master staff. Grading and evaluating. Hindered and having to wait on a staff member to review and give you your levels. And that a newbie player for 2 weeks compared to a veteran player of 8 months would show the contrast on the level gap seeing how the 8 month old player would have been far vested into their character than the 2 week player.

This setup has been a debate for players and staff for quality vs quantity, and being overall an unfair expectation. While everyone is entitled to their own opinion, we would like to hear your feedback on the matter. Please answer the poll above and if you like leave a feedback in the comments below.

[LucianBlade 0]

Lvl per post Pros:Shows who is truly dedicated to playing on the forum.This takes time. and sao wasnt something beat in a few attacks

Lvl per post Con:Players farm the unrestricted. or they Speed short posts.

Lvl per rp Pros: well umm this is biased for pros so idk if i can do this one

lvl per rp Cons: way to much to read

[Guest]

I like the idea of leveling per post made, for one, it shows that you are dedicated to leveling up by posting, It makes it easier on everyon including the GM's, but I do like the idea of the Quality over Quantity, per say your a new player, and you post crazy like, and your posts are a decent amount of characters. Then that would be quite alright as Quality wise, but if you like me who has other accounts and are a Veteran, your posts are not only long, but are quite detailed. But I believe that you should keep things the way they are, it does seem quite unfare to have that setting.

lvl per rp Cons: way to much to read

That maybe true Lucian, but most of the sites best Rp's have that much in it, for example, Miaki and Nikki, I have never seen a set of players who put soo much time in there posts like them, there Rp's are incredibly long yes, but they are detailed enough to make you actually see the picture happening, I see this as a way for them to express how much they enjoy to Rp. I read most of their work, and I give them both a ten out of ten in the visual part of there stories, and story line they make, and I don't mind that there as long as a novel, in fact I like long posts like that, I like to read.

Lvl per post Con:Players farm the unrestricted. or they Speed short posts.

Now this I have to agree on, I myself have had a few moments when I posted quite a short post due to inactive thoughts or boring storyplot, as I think that people who post short posts should re think there playstyles. I for one get tired and uninterested in someone who makes short and quite dull post, as it seems more like work than pleasure to post and affects my posting quite alot. My tips for player who are dull in their writing skills, heres my advice, look at other peoples work and see how much time they put into their work and then try to reflect on you own skills to see you errors and flaws.

[Mayonaka 0]

I like leveling up by posting but there are some things wrong with it.

One liners are forbidden but it still makes me fell bad when I right a paragraph and take a long time to level up; then a new player does two liners and levels past me!

[Aoife 0]

Is there a way to have the system grade leveling not by post count, but by word count in each post? I honestly thought that was how it already was in the first place, but I guess not. XD

[Shark 0]

There is no current way to level by word count.

[Guest]

There is no current way to level by word count.

The only way that would happen is if someone developed a program to count letter characters and based on however many characters a person type they get that much EXP. from the systems list. Now this is just my opion and me just brainstorming. As said before, I like the level system as it is now, plane, sweet and smiple, not a head ache to mess with, as a great man said, "Don't fix what ain't Broken."

[Natalia 0]

I like leveling up by posting but there are some things wrong with it.

One liners are forbidden but it still makes me fell bad when I right a paragraph and take a long time to level up; then a new player does two liners and levels past me!

That's what I see as well. I feel like leveling by posts encourages shorter, less-detailed posts. As someone mentioned above, however, for the extremely high-leveled players, it also reveals their dedication.

To be completely honest, though, unless there were GMs that were willing to dedicate the time to evaluate and give experience based on post quality, the current system is probably best.

EDIT: Looking at it from another perspective, you'd also have to take into account the fact that not everybody is as skilled in writing as others may be. There are quite a few fantastic writers on the site, but at the same time, there are also those who may struggle with finer details. By changing the system to quality over quantity, those with less writing experience will have a harder time.

[Draterion 0]

That's what I see as well. I feel like leveling by posts encourages shorter, less-detailed posts. As someone mentioned above, however, for the extremely high-leveled players, it also reveals their dedication.

To be completely honest, though, unless there were GMs that were willing to dedicate the time to evaluate and give experience based on post quality, the current system is probably best.

EDIT: Looking at it from another perspective, you'd also have to take into account the fact that not everybody is as skilled in writing as others may be. There are quite a few fantastic writers on the site, but at the same time, there are also those who may struggle with finer details. By changing the system to quality over quantity, those with less writing experience will have a harder time.

I totally agree with your edit. When I first came here,(being I attempt to write stories at home) thought this would be a slice of cake. But turns out I was wrong. It is fairly hard to do this site in my eyes, and especially with a lame butt tablet like mine. As I agree with your point, Mayonaka, you must also consider Setsuko's post. When I first came here it was hard, and I thought I'd be dine once I joined, but it wasn't. And also another thing. Fighting monsters why must you descripe every hit with so much detail! Its rather hard, but I like that, cause it gives me a drive to success. I believe there is no fair system for leveling, I also fear.

[Dameon 0]

As others have stated. It is both a blessing and a curse. A balance of the two is probably a good thing to consider.

Skill points gained via RP of depth and WC.

Levels by Posts.

This will allow minimal adjustments and go further in the system, imo

[9Lives 0]

this board is based after the principles of of an mmo and so every time a question is drawn about ow sighting should be done that's where i go for reference. The level by post is not a terrible thing however the way it is managed is. if the only way a person could level their character was by roleplaying then it would make a little sense as to what they are leveling up. however given a board where you can post anything anywhere and it makes your sao character stronger just doesn't make sense. that's like saying my Old Republic character is leveling up while I'm at. I mean I'm still doing things in my life so why am I not leveling up on the game? because in a game you only level up when your playing it.

now that's not even true now is it? see playing a game doesn't just make me level up. i can be logged into to a safe zone rping with my friends and i don't level up. why is that? well because the game doesn't reward you for not playing it even if your logged in. all the people stuck on floor one aren't leveling up just because they are existing and talking and whining about how shitty being stuck in the game is. yet the vast majority of posts people rp either are from out of game posts or from rping with no actual game play.

lastly in a game there is a diminishing return of experience. you don't get the same amount of experience for killing a mob at level 3 than you do at level 10. in most game if you get 5 levels over an enemy you no longer are getting experience because the game knows this is not a challenge for you. and yet here we are still on level 9 and we have people who are in the high 30s. this would be impossible in an actual mmo. all this does is cause problems because there's no way to scale the boss battles to be challenging for everyone. we either make it acceptable for low to mid level players and it be too easy for the high level players, or we make it challenging for the high level characters and the low level ones will die constantly.

and that's really the biggest complaint of the entire system. the fact that people can get to level 40 when the game hasn't progressed past level 9. level by post is all well and fine if it makes sense in the game. if the max level you could reach was determined by the level we are on, or even if it was just set by the forum group it would work. like if the max level is 15 until we broke level 10. then the max level would go up to 25. always staying 5 levels above the highest floor in that forum. doesn't matter how its designed.

the only way leveling by post would work as a true game mechanic of the game is if you only got post count in the rp area, and there was a level cap depending on the power of the floor. I know this is not going to be popular and i don't expect anyone to want it because they would lose there levels and there edge against other players, but it is the only way the game would work. after all how could people threaten others in the Skype calls if they aren't 20 levels higher than the person they are threatening...

[Natalia 0]

Skill points gained via RP of depth and WC.

I disagree with this. Even if leveling is still done by posts, if skill points are given based on depth and word count, you're still screwing over those who have a harder time writing those in-depth and detailed posts. It simply isn't fair, as it favors those with more experience in writing, and doesn't allow those with less experience to even really stand a chance in SAO; they will always be below the best.

...however given a board where you can post anything anywhere and it makes your sao character stronger just doesn't make sense.

I completely agree with this statement, but as I said earlier, a system in which GMs provide experience at the end of a thread could be extremely time consuming, unless it came down to just word count. Even then, is word count really a fair estimate? Everyone has their own style of roleplaying. Some people roleplay in first-person, some in third. Some people base most of their word count on the mindset of the characters, some people like to pay closer attention to the details of actions and movements they make.

In my opinion, it's a lot easier to write paragraphs and paragraphs of what your character's beliefs are, but writing actions can get challenging, especially when you're trying to keep them varied. So unless there's a way to accurately determine the quality of the post, rather than just word count, I don't believe anything can be changed fairly.

yet the vast majority of posts people rp either are from out of game posts or from rping with no actual game play.

Now, for this, I use a different argument. I'm just going to state that I believe solo roleplaying is a stupid concept. Sure, you're writing a character, you're developing a character, and maybe you're having fun, but I fail to believe that the majority of the people who SP threads are actually having fun. Perhaps I'm biased because I hate it, but there's also the fact that if you truly wanted to level quickly, solo roleplaying is the easiest way; you completely control the rate at which you post, which could be several posts an hour, or even more.

With that in mind, what about those who choose to party roleplay? Party roleplay requires a bit of waiting as each player posts and waits for the next. For some, that also means they need to focus on the actions of their party member, so they can react accordingly. Along with that, I believe you should keep a certain element of realism, especially when with party members. Sure, characters may react differently, but in SAO, realistically, not everyone will immediately want to go to the fields and hunt boar with each other. It simply isn't realistic. So yes, there's quite a bit of player interaction, rather than just pure gameplay and combat, but that's not a bad thing. Isn't an RP driven by character interaction? People who prefer to play with others shouldn't be punished for it.

lastly in a game there is a diminishing return of experience. you don't get the same amount of experience for killing a mob at level 3 than you do at level 10. in most game if you get 5 levels over an enemy you no longer are getting experience because the game knows this is not a challenge for you.

I agree with you here, it is bizarre having players at incredible levels when players are still searching for the tenth floor. Regardless, SAO didn't work like a normal MMORPG as it was. I don't remember the exact numbers, but I'm fairly certain Kirito was in his 40s when he met the Moonlit Black Cats, and in his 60s-70s at their demise. Floor 27 is where they were killed. Whether Kirito's strength was unrealistic or not, the fact is that he was that strong. The fact is there were players that strong in the anime, and it shouldn't be denied that there could be players that strong in our own SAORPG.

Just another little argument: we don't know how enemy levels worked in the anime either, which we aren't, but it was bothering me too. I fail to believe that the entirety of floor one is inhabited by level one mobs, and the same continues on. On floor seventy-five, Kirito was level 97. I'm just going to go on a limb and say the majority of players with them were probably in their eighties. Monsters will level up with you. Realistically, for all we know, the monsters on floor nine could be in their early/late twenties, maybe even earlier thirties. With no set enemy level system, it's left to imagination.

after all how could people threaten others in the Skype calls if they aren't 20 levels higher than the person they are threatening...

I disagree. People shouldn't lose their level simply because it is now deemed unrealistic for them to be so high. Those high-leveled players put a lot of effort into getting their level, regardless of WC and post quality. The elites deserve to stay the elites.

[Guest]

Hmm... I love our current system. Power to the posters. But.. There are those who are going to go out and spam. Now, allow me to clarify. Posts keep this site alive. With every post, the bots become more active. If the bots become more active, then the site gets more popular. If the site gets more popular, than we have more users. And the site gets better for all. What we really need is a team who can crack down on one-liners. What I say, everything until this point is set. From the update onward, all one lines in RPGing be deleted on site by a special survey team.

[Ethereal 0]

Volunteering for special survey team! =^.^=

[9Lives 0]

@ Setsuko

I understabd what your saying and this may seem strange to say but the game machanics and the roleplay of your chatacter are not the same thing. Game mechanis are based on how the game is run and how it was designed to hand out experiance. Yes we are all here to role play but that is not how a game works. You have to do something worth the effort to get rewarded. Sittibg in town talking, e-rping in the restricted, talking out of character. These are not aspects of the game. They are just things people want to do in rp. Let them do it, its fun but dont say their character is stronger than another becuase they like to talk to themselves more.

The main difference in your argument and mine is that when we hit a gap in how the canon interprets the game you try to fill it in with what you or the players would want. When I see the gap in the anime based on an mmo I try to fill in the gap with the way actuall mmos work.

Dont get me wrong. Im not saying posting isnt important or tkaing away peoples post counts. Power to the active members. But if all they care about is rping and not the actuall training of their character then level shouldn't matter. Im not suggesting removing any posts. Just saying that there should be a cap on how high u can get based on what floor the game is on. Anyone with posts over those levels would get boosted up once floor groups are completed which would make more people want to get involved in the clearing effort. But I digress. Im not trying to change anything. Just giving my perspective.

[Rolland 0]

I prefer this way, much easier to understand, I would like to keep things this way, yes I know people do, do use short posts to level, but that is why we have reports icons, \!/, this allows us to report if someone breaks the rule. And this will help us prevent this most of the time. I for one wouldn't mind if this Quantitly over Quality is imputted, just means I can put more info in and have better posts.

[Erroneous 0]

35 of you state "I like leveling up by posting"

16 of you state "I hate leveling up by posting"

A whopping 69% to 31% ratio have voiced your opinions and given us factual feedback. We can not know what you feel or what your opinion is on how our systems perform unless you tell us. So polls like this we will be using as references to when we make decisions on to continue, remove, reuse, rebuild, or re-purpose some of our systems, rules, and guides.

By all means, give us the true honesty and opinion on what you like and dislike in polls like these; just keep your languages down to a PG-13 level with less profanity to get your statement out.

[Yami 0]

35 of you state "I like leveling up by posting"

16 of you state "I hate leveling up by posting"

A whopping 69% to 31% ratio have voiced your opinions and given us factual feedback. We can not know what you feel or what your opinion is on how our systems perform unless you tell us. So polls like this we will be using as references to when we make decisions on to continue, remove, reuse, rebuild, or re-purpose some of our systems, rules, and guides.

By all means, give us the true honesty and opinion on what you like and dislike in polls like these; just keep your languages down to a PG-13 level with less profanity to get your statement out.

Hm.. well actually I think I'm good with the current system, just a problem: Flood/Spam.

Now, from what I've seen, One Line/Short Post rule has been marked well, so.. the future will tell if any possible flood/spam will be fixed and be no more.

[Sphinx 0]

New here myself, but I'm just gonna throw in my two cents after skimming over the thread.

I like the idea of gaining experience via posting, though I find myself agreeing with those mentioning the "Quality over quantity" bit. In other words, gaining experience based on your character count, instead of your post count. I write a lot when I roleplay, and I'd find it unfair for someone writing two-liners to level up faster than me, if I'm doing paragraphs.

If I may, this reminds me of the "Fresh-kill" system on WCRPG. Points awarded for posting. These points have a minimum and maximum amount. The points you gain in that post increase as you type more, until it reaches the maximum amount. So, while one person wouldn't level up if they type several paragraphs in one post, they would still get a fair bit more than someone who's only posting the minimum. Of course, it'd be up to the staff to set any minimum/maximum amounts.

Oh, and I think it'd be appropriate to limit gaining experience to character-related threads, if that's possible. I noticed I gained experience for this post, and it just really isn't relevant to my character, so it seems a bit unfair.

[Senpai-kun 0]

I really love the system here but one thing I hate is that there are some people like me who can be sometimes uninterested with the story plot that we will make because others are not in the mood or something else.. Also it would be unfair to people who writes a paragraph because it would take time to finish while some one-liner rp'er will surpass them fast. What we really need here is that we need to have a rules that will require people to write 5 lines or more. I know it is rather unfair to others but it is the only way to become fair.

I also disagree with the system that counts posts as exp because there might be people who will spam around the forums and the forums is so big! Again, it would be unfair to players who doesn't have the time to look at the ooc forums or even this one. I think that would be all ladies and gentlemen. *takes hat off and bows, puts it back* Goodbye.