Field Boss Events (For Low-Mid) & Dungeon Raids (For Mid-High)

[Oikawa 1]

Now I didn't really want to make a topic, but with the recent topics and statuses concerning Events for lower-leveled and higher-leveled players alike I offer suggestions that may help both situations.

 

Now as Jubei has pointed out, the current raids seem to be geared towards higher leveled players. I agree and disagree with this point. On one hand, yes it is better if you are a higher leveled player. As these are Floor Boss raids that we are doing. On the other hand,as many have pointed out, if you are in groups with people of with the same or higher level than you, these Events and Raids are possible to clear even at lower levels. As long as you stay conscious of your limitations and RP with the thought that this is a DEATH game. You should be able to keep yourself from dying.

 

Now I have also noticed as a certain player pointed out. There really isn't a challenge for players over level 35. These higher players don't have much to do in there spare time, hence why they just RP out arcs of their life here within SAO. They have nothing geared towards them. Nothing to look forward too as some would say. That is just as unfair to them as the "higher leveled" raids are unfair to us lower leveled folks.

 

With all that being said, I offer two suggestions. As the title states, suggestion numero uno is : Field Boss events. A Field boss event would be something that could be allowed once a month or so. It would consist of a random Boss with stats catered to that of the lower leveled. Since there aren't many field bosses in SAO, the GM's can basically balance it however they see fit. This gives something for lower leveled players to look forward to while the usual Floor Boss fight goes on. Now of course depending on the floor there should be a level requirement, and as such this could double as a solution for higher level players once we reach higher floors. Its not perfect and I haven't really gone into much detail but it is in fact just a suggestion. Something we could all collectively brainstorm and think about.

 

Suggestion number two is geared more towards the higher leveled peeps. Remember in SAO when Kirito would solo clearing the dungeons before the Boss Room? Well why don't we implement something like that for our higher leveled guys? Give them an event they can do right before they battle the Floor Boss. I imagine it would be somewhat difficult to conjure up, but with the great minds of our staff and player input, I'm sure we could find a way to make this happen.

 

Like I said these are just suggestions and not to be taken as a complaint or something that must happen. It's just my two cents on the matter. Please feel free to comment below your thoughts on these suggestions.

 

In my opinion I feel it would bring us that much closer to the Anime and Manga we base ourselves from.

Thanks for reading! :D

[XWuZHeAR 0]

I aprove of this message^

[Baldur 0]

I am with you, and opposed at the same time. I think if you take field bosses away from the higher levels, that leaves them with only 1 thing to do, instead of 2. I think field bosses should be just as hard, or almost as hard, as floor bosses. There are examples of these in the Light Novel. I don't think lowbies should be participating in them... with an exception.

 

We need to understand how the mods are running these bosses. People died in the Floor 9 boss fight for no reason. The skill system outlines a Hate mechanic for tanking, but these were clearly ignored and that then begs the question of: why? If the hate mechanics are used, then a lowish level character can somewhat join a Floor boss of field boss fight. 

 

However, I don't think this means there shouldn't be content for lower level players, or level caps on certain content.

 

There is already a rule that if a mob has less than half the HP of the highest HP character in the thread, it's not qualified to drop loot or anything. I think this could be used to make stuff only worthwhile for lowbies.

 

I think a large part of the problem is that we have people that are level 30+ on floor 9. In SAO, people this high level were running around on the 20th floors. If we get through the next could of levels quickly, then we can start seeing content that is geared for higher level players which separates it out from lower level players.

 

If we create enough content for high level players to partake in, then they won't need to take part in 2nd floor field boss fights, leaving it alone for lower level players.

 

Does that make sense?

[Oikawa 1]

The field boss thing, as I mentioned, could be geared towards both groups. I even said "as such this could double as a solution for higher level players once we reach higher floors."

 

I do agree this is all pretty dependent on how the GM's are running the bosses. Like you pointed out, I never see the hate mechanic used and as such it cost 2 players their lives (along with their inactivity of course) but nonetheless like you also said it can allow "lowbies" to participate in Floor Boss fights.

 

From what I thought I understood Field Bosses should be weaker than Floor Bosses. Then again I could be mistaken. Will do research later.

 

I agree with your point about the loot drop. No qualms there.

 

The leveling as you mentioned is definitely skewed. I was wondering the same thing. We have several players over 35 in level and we haven't even made it to the 11th floor yet. Let alone Floor 20. I was wondering if at this point could any player ever solo a boss, because now due to the leveling you have to have a party since the Floor Bosses are created with parties in mind.

 

I also agree with your second to last statement. Again no qualms.

 

I think I more or less get what you're saying. And agree with just about everything said since we don't differ much in opinion rather than how we go about it.

[Baldur 0]

@Oikawa - Part of the problem is the cap. I at level 7, can deal basically indistinguishable amounts of damage from Zel and Keith, who are QUITE a bit higher level than me. Keith has over 100 HP, so a boss that's dealing 5 damage (Which we're seeing) is never going to kill Keith, and probably not Zel or many of the other level 30+ characters. The item/skill/enhancement mechanics we have fall apart around level 15-20. The scaling just doesn't work, so we end up with a huge disparity. Mobs need to have HUGE HP pools because of the number of players attacking them, but they need to deal tiny amounts of damage to not one shot people.

 

What needs to happen is they need to iron out Hate mechanics. This will encourage some players to build tanks, and have to play strategically. In SAO they had entire parties of tanks that would switch between tanking the boss, and healing. This is actually the best way to get this to work in our current setup as well. The bosses need to hit like TRUCKS. I mean 10 DMG for example: if someone builds TANK (+3 Mitigation, 5 armor skill) thats 8 Mitigation. If they build the shield skill, that's -3 (up to -5) to the mobs die. That means the boss is only hitting on 9s and 10s without accuracy. Since a 9 and 10 hits anyways, these tanks are going to only be taking 3-4 dmg a shot and only 1/5 boss attacks will hit.

 

That means Keith could tank an entire floor boss fight and have no risk of dying. Only 1 party is needed to clear these floor bosses, and it would be done faster doing it that way as well.

 

I think, as was pointed out, the Valentines Event boss is a perfect low level boss encounter. It's a great sweet spot where it required someone to "tank" it, but with a fully party, no one is really in jeopardy of dying.

 

This is a death game, it should be dangerous. We should be pushing ourselves to the limit each time there's a boss fight.

 

I do think, however, it would be a good idea in the quest thread to list the floor the quest is on, to help people know which quests are appropriate for their low level character, and which ones aren't. I also think that if quests had a bit more information (like the Avalanche and Sand Shark and Wind Wasp Queen), then you could weed out quests from high level players. There is, in effect, no different between one of the aforementioned boss fights and a low level "field boss" event. What Jubei was complaining was missing is actually in the quest board, the mods just don't make as big of a deal about it.

 

I also think some quests (like the aforementioned quests) should have some better item drops. Currently uncommons are basically worthless throw aways, and rares and perfects only come from crafters. Difficult quests should drop a rare. I also think Mats vs Col needs to be revised, because currently Col has no value, while mats do (due to them being a limited resources since crafters consume them to make more goods).

 

 

The issues not giving the high level players stuff so they leave the floor bosses alone its dumbing down the bosses in separate events for the lowbies. 100 hp is not have anyone's level that's below level 10. Fifty hp is half most peoples hp below level 10 not 100

 

100 HP is too low for any group content. If you have 6 people in a group, dealing 5 dmg, that's 30 DMG a round. You've killed a 100 HP creature in just over 3 turns. That's silly fast. Even if the fight were nothing but level 5-7s, you'd want an event mob to have around 200 HP to get any sort of a decent fight.

[Oikawa 1]

Ah I see what you mean. I honestly wholly agree with everything you said except for the Keith tanking a boss by himself, do we really want 1 player to be able to tank? I mean I guess if we're being realistic and we do a level to floor ratio then yes Keith should in fact be able to tank quite a few of these bosses by himself. I guess we'd just have to deal with it though, but then again if things were more "ironed out" as you said this could be an alleviated issue. 

 

Well I guess only time will tell what changes get implemented. I think we raised some really good points and hopefully something comes of it. Otherwise, I'll continue playing like I have been rather than making excuses for why I can't be/do something. (Yes this is directed @Jubei)

[Baldur 0]

Ah I see what you mean. I honestly wholly agree with everything you said except for the Keith tanking a boss by himself, do we really want 1 player to be able to tank? I mean I guess if we're being realistic and we do a level to floor ratio then yes Keith should in fact be able to tank quite a few of these bosses by himself. I guess we'd just have to deal with it though, but then again if things were more "ironed out" as you said this could be an alleviated issue. 

 

Well I guess only time will tell what changes get implemented. I think we raised some really good points and hopefully something comes of it. Otherwise, I'll continue playing like I have been rather than making excuses for why I can't be/do something. (Yes this is directed @Jubei)

 

I'm going to be pushing the limits in my hunting thread, so I can't wait to see what becomes of it.

 

As to Keith tanking... no, we don't want that. But in order to fix it, we need Floor bosses to hit for 20 DMG. This would make even Keith flinch, with max mitigation. Also, they need some accuracy. I would recommend 2-3 points so that tanks NEED to take block in order to avoid being auto-hit. A geared should reset the boss to normal.

 

So lets assume a tank has the following. Max Mitigation (8 points), and Max block (Which doesn't stack with evasion) which is -5 to mob die. A normal hit is 6 plus. Block drops that so they only hit on 9 or 10, but this is really only 3 points, so it's easy for anyone to get. That means a Floor Boss needs 5 accuracy to reset it to a 6+ is a hit. This also means anyone without avoidance or block is getting hit on anything but a 1. That's GREAT for a floor boss. Tanks have a 50/50 chance. Which is also GREAT for a floor boss. It means we want to make sure that boss is only hitting tanks. You make it hit for 20 DMG, a full tank is going to take 12 DMG from that, or 14 on a critical. That's only ONE good healing item. Tanks should be loaded with these. They should also have tons of HP. Currently, you can really only get +10 HP above your level, that means other than mitigation, the only thing separating out a tank is HP from level. We don't want to force high levels into tanking, it should be a choice.

 

Your option here is to make it so that heavy armor skill gives you bonus HP as well. 2 per level would give you +10 HP. We can also throw in some additional bonuses into abilities like howl. Dragon Age Inquisition implements something like "Guard" which is basically bonus HP. Make it so that "Howl" gives you some bonus HP, or the other ability that increases your hate per post, make that give you something to deal with the threat you're taking in.

 

This makes "going tank" a decision the player makes, and it fills a roll that's needed if the boss hits for 20. That's going to sucker punch anyone who isn't ready for it, and that's a mechanic we want to make the fight dangerous. Once a tank gets low on HP, then someone needs to "taunt" the tank, while the first one uses healing items. This is the rotation Kirito is talking about in SAO.

 

Then we return to damage dealing. It makes no sense that at level 7, I can deal damage similar to a 40 something. I would suggest we implement some kind of proficiency system. Where your level divided by 10 is bonus damage you deal. So Keith would get a +4 damage just from his level.

 

Also, we've got a system of items that caps at +3 (perfect), yet it's REALLY easy to get a fully perfect itemed character, and we're only at floor 9? Where do we go from here? I am assuming the mods already have a plan for this, but again, I have comparable gear to someone who is level 40 something and that's just silly. 

[Oikawa 1]

Good I think I need my limits pushed. 

 

The only downside to your scenario, is that it is dependent on if we even have players willing to tank, because if we don't and we give Bosses those stats you mention, virtually everyone is royally screwed.

 

The next part of your comment delves into additional abilities and and maybe bonus that don't affect you until you reach a level divisible by 10. While I'm not against in the least, I worry how that balances with the rest of the skills and if that means other skills will get buffed as well. 

 

Unrelated sort of: Why don't we have actual sword skills. Like Kirito's Starburst Stream? I mean the only thing close to that is charge and that's stretching it...

 

Back on topic:

 

Your last comment I fully agree with. I think I was level 6 when I attained 3 Perfect gear. I received 1 from Santa and crafted the other 2 easy peasy. I think there should be something beyond perfect or we need to start implementing that hidden trait I read about somewhere.

[Baldur 0]

Good I think I need my limits pushed. 

 

The only downside to your scenario, is that it is dependent on if we even have players willing to tank, because if we don't and we give Bosses those stats you mention, virtually everyone is royally screwed.

 

The next part of your comment delves into additional abilities and and maybe bonus that don't affect you until you reach a level divisible by 10. While I'm not against in the least, I worry how that balances with the rest of the skills and if that means other skills will get buffed as well. 

 

Unrelated sort of: Why don't we have actual sword skills. Like Kirito's Starburst Stream? I mean the only thing close to that is charge and that's stretching it...

 

Back on topic:

 

Your last comment I fully agree with. I think I was level 6 when I attained 3 Perfect gear. I received 1 from Santa and crafted the other 2 easy peasy. I think there should be something beyond perfect or we need to start implementing that hidden trait I read about somewhere.

 

Re: Sword Skills - I've been told they're coming. The mods have been working really hard on balancing a system, but I don't know what it is.

 

Re: perfect items - I think we need to implement different material quality, that would help make materials required for perfect items, and therefore perfect items, rare.

 

Re: Tanking characters - Tyger is building tank. And there are a few others a well. I think if there were a need and a purpose, that people would build that way.

 

Re: level damage - yea, at level 10 you'd get +1, and I think that's a nice reward. I have also tossed around the idea that at certain levels you gain additional item slots. So like, level 10 you get an accessory slot. level 20 you get a "back" slot, etc... so the higher level characters could equip more gear.

[Oikawa 1]

 

Re: Sword Skills - I've been told they're coming. The mods have been working really hard on balancing a system, but I don't know what it is.

 

Re: perfect items - I think we need to implement different material quality, that would help make materials required for perfect items, and therefore perfect items, rare.

 

Re: Tanking characters - Tyger is building tank. And there are a few others a well. I think if there were a need and a purpose, that people would build that way.

 

Re: level damage - yea, at level 10 you'd get +1, and I think that's a nice reward. I have also tossed around the idea that at certain levels you gain additional item slots. So like, level 10 you get an accessory slot. level 20 you get a "back" slot, etc... so the higher level characters could equip more gear.

 

Re: Good to hear!

 

Re: Hmm It'd give me more of a reason to RP for mats, since I'd need to find and or obtain "Perfect Materials" So +1 for that.

 

Re: Hopefully if it came to that we got some tankers before it became too late to re allocate your points for such a build.

 

Re: Not a bad idea at all . All for it! Hmm this section of the RP should be used more often. (It probably is I was just unaware of it)

[Ariel - The Crowned Lion 0]

Also, we've got a system of items that caps at +3 (perfect), yet it's REALLY easy to get a fully perfect itemed character, and we're only at floor 9? Where do we go from here? I am assuming the mods already have a plan for this, but again, I have comparable gear to someone who is level 40 something and that's just silly. 

As a tailor, I've been given order only for perfect items..so the uncommon/rare items are quite useless for me..and only generate low income by selling them to the general store/merchant... I think enchantements should have some sort of quality binding to them..each quality is to have different types of enhancements and each job should have its specific enhancement(I'm referring to the tailor/smith/artesan having the same items) that can be applied to them..if that makes sense..

Also I believe the reason for all the perfect items flooding the "market" is due to the low price they have..I mean 1000 col for a perfect...you finish a 3 page rp and get a item.. even less if you get enough extra col from the loot. A higher price range should do the trick, I think we (crafters and co.) should agree to raise the bar a little..As mentioned a little above, you can't really buy that many stuff in the current SAO, except basic hp posts/crystals and such items.

But I know this is still a work in progress and hope to see what the staff has coming for us:D  Just a modest opinion from you friendly neighborhood spider tailor.

[Lessa 1]

I absolutely agree that perfect items are far too easy to obtain. Before I closed my shop, that's all I crafted. Anything that was less than perfect was considered worthless. In fact, I imagine I have some rolls that I never even used, because they didn't give me a perfect. I still logged them, and counted them toward my daily attempts, but I didn't go through the hassle of writing them up and having them evaluated. I just ignored them, because they aren't necessary.

The only reason I still have my rare sword is nostalgia; someone special made it for me. If it weren't for the sentimental value, I would have crafted myself a perfect ages ago.

[Kosan 0]

I've read through this and found some great ideas :

First - Damage per level.. Th base damage per level should increase with 1 at every 5 levels.. That way a level 40 has a base of 9 , when a level 10 has a base of 3.. Which I think its quite fair , keeping in mind that both have just perfect items..

Second - I have been thinking about this. A blacksmith for example has 10 ranks yes ? We heard that uncommon / rare are unwanted.. How about we do this.. We raise the prices a lot , like uncommon 1000 , rare 2000 , perfect 3000 , and make it something like this :

Rank 1-3 - can craft only uncommons. At CD of 11 and 12 can craft rare

Rank 4-7 - can craft only uncommons and rares. At CD 9-10 Rare and at CD 11-12 Perfect

Rank 8-10 . can craft all of them , at CD 6/7 uncommons , 8/9 Rares and at 10/11/12 perfects...

This might help at making a difference , because to achieve a full perfect you would need around 10k col and a rank 4/5/6/7/8/9/10 Blacksmith.

Thirdly : Let's say I go mat hunting. I go mining as I am a blacksmith. I find silver and I don't know gold.. If I craft the item with gold that would add another 1 slot to the item I crafted.. Like , I craft a crown. If I make it a perfect and out of silver it has 3 enchants.. If I make it a perfect and out of gold it has 4 enchants.. But to get the gold ore , you would need to roll a 18/19/20 on the Lood Dice and to melt it a roll of 11/12 on CD.. If you fail the mat is destroyed.. This might help a little making gear awesome , but it would raise the price of the item like hell.. For a 4 bonuses 8.ooo col , I dont know.. This was the higher levels will have better gear, while low levels will use uncommons.. Creating a difference between the level 40 and level 8:..

Hope this makes sense..

[Oikawa 1]

Skimmed through the latest 3 replies and I'm actually on board with some of this stuff.

 

1. Raising the value of enhanced items

I completely agree with this notion as it stands now its costs you a little under 4000 col to get a perfect set. Armor. Weapons. The whole shabang. I obtained nearly 10,000 col after 10 or so RP's and a few sells in my Shop. Simply put 4000 Col ain't hard to get. especially if you Solo Play a lot.

 

2. Enhancement differentiation between Professions

I see what you mean there. It is kinda weird for 3 Professions to be able to give the exact same stat enhancements as one another. It'd be more diverse if we gave each Profession just some of the overall enhancements. Now that doesn't mean the enhancements in each profession won't overlap, but rather, each one has just some of the overall enhances and not all. 

 

3. Caps should be raised alongside a raise in the value of enhanced items

The difficulty of crafting an enhanced item should be raised. As such the prices will go up, which ultimately leads to the increase in value of said item. Honestly potions could be making a fortune. They are needed items but seem quite easy to purchase or obtain. Furthermore as we get up higher in the floors, I whole-heatedly believe that unless we raise the bar Were going to be battling Floor Bosses that were similar in stats to the ones we fight now, due to not having much more to gain aside from HP once you hit a certain level. I think Kosan illustrates a great suggestion(along with Baldur earlier) for help fixing our damage output per level. I think if we make all the changes necessary, we will have a different system but it will be one that can allow higher level players to actually feel high leveled. As Baldur said, there is no reason that at a level 7 I'm dealing nearly just as much damage as he is.

 

Rant Reply Over....

[Baldur 0]

The issue we have to address with merchant/perfect item costs is scarcity.

 

A) doing several crafts a day, and having a 10-20% chance to craft a perfect, means that 1 crafter on average is going to put out a perfect item maybe every other day.

B) Since we only have 3 item slots, this means 1 crafter could perfect out 1 player AT WORST once a week. We have far more crafters than that

C) Col is a more scarce, and useless currency

D) Mats are plentiful and useful.

 

So every mob drops a mat. That mat can be used for anything. There is only a 50% chance for col, but if you go to a crafter, they want mats over col because they need mats for that 1/6 chance of crafting a perfect item.

 

My suggestion would be:

Good items - 1 mats

Uncommon items - 2 mats

Rare Items - 3 mats

Perfect items - 4 mats

 

Now this is only going to drive mats HIGHER in demand and make them even more valuable than Col, but this will make better quality items more scarce, since if you did not have the number of mats required, and you rolled for the perfect, then you wouldn't be able to craft it. The alternative is to have mat QUALITIES. Based on your loot die roll, you get good/uncommon/rare/perfect quality mat.

 

The question then becomes, how do we make Col valuable?

 

Part of the issue is - we have nothing to spend it on. The only Col sink that currently exists is the merchant general item shop. Since we don't craft those items, and can't give them away for mats, they have a hard and fast value. Once the alchemists get going, that's going to disappear, and the only Col sink we'll have will be dimensional backpacks.

 

Other games rectify this through means like repair costs, travel costs, and buying certain things from NPCs that you can't get from players. In SAO lore, part of this cost would be food and a room to sleep in at night, as well as repairing gear.

 

To bring it all back together, I would recommend add a Col shop to merchant vendors like we currently have with health potions, etc... There is the merchant cost (price floor), and then whatever they want to charge on top of that for profit. If we tie this in with needing a lot more mats to craft items (4 for a perfect item), this would mean that crafters will need more mats than players are bringing in. Since these mats from a merchant shop can ONLY  be bought with Col, this creates a desire for crafters to accept col, and it creates a Col sink, making the col leave the player economy and raising the value of Col.

[Rebekah 0]

D) Mats are plentiful and useful.

Now this is only going to drive mats HIGHER in demand and make them even more valuable than Col, but this will make better quality items more scarce, since if you did not have the number of mats required, and you rolled for the perfect, then you wouldn't be able to craft it. The alternative is to have mat QUALITIES. Based on your loot die roll, you get good/uncommon/rare/perfect quality mat.

I beg to differ on that topic. Mats are already super high in demand, as it is already hard to obtain enough mats to keep a sustained leveling to keep leveling up. By making mats harder to obtain, it would just further compound the issue. Although, I do agree with the point that once you obtain full perfects equipment, there are no point to get more, unless you consider consumables - (alchemist, chefs).

 

C) Col is a more scarce, and useless currency

 

The question then becomes, how do we make Col valuable?

Yes, well, so far, we have not reached the point where housing or guild headquarters become added into the roleplay yet. Those did cost a lot in the game itself, and these would be the money sinks/drains that would be in place of an economy, or unless someone can think of another way to drain col from this economy. (Ex. You must buy food to tame familiar, that is a drain, even if it does cost 50 col).

[Ariel - The Crowned Lion 0]

 even if it does cost 50 col

 What??? I payed 94..that old geezer tricked me.

 

Jokes aside the staff can make something like a Shop opening tax, or monthly rent.. And as a bonus crafters get +1 CD at 1 item every 5/10/(pick your number)  items made..

for example one pays a specific amount of col for opening a shop(something like 3 completed topics = 1200 col) and then every 1/2/3/(random number) shop pages completed, he pays a amount of col, like the reverse of the col reward from the threads. (payed col will vary for different job ranks)

that in return will allow the shop owner, once every 5 items to get a free use(or not) +1 CD (this would be for low lvl jobs that can't make that many items a day/ the interval will vary for each job rank.) 

 

Again, this is a moment's brainstorm..I'm aware its very flawed, but its the best I can think for the moment...think of it as a prototype. 

[Baldur 0]

I beg to differ on that topic. Mats are already super high in demand, as it is already hard to obtain enough mats to keep a sustained leveling to keep leveling up. By making mats harder to obtain, it would just further compound the issue. Although, I do agree with the point that once you obtain full perfects equipment, there are no point to get more, unless you consider consumables - (alchemist, chefs).

 

Yes, well, so far, we have not reached the point where housing or guild headquarters become added into the roleplay yet. Those did cost a lot in the game itself, and these would be the money sinks/drains that would be in place of an economy, or unless someone can think of another way to drain col from this economy. (Ex. You must buy food to tame familiar, that is a drain, even if it does cost 50 col).

About that mats... yes, you make a good point. Tyger can make something like half a dozen attempts per day, but she's also put out tons of items. Probably more than she will ever sell. And judging by the number of crafted perfects we have laying around, while it is difficult, it is obviously doable. Right now people are to more or less make their max attempted crafters per day mostly through solo efforts. With my suggestion in place it would really be more of a guild effort. Also, you need to pair this idea the concept of buying missing mats from a merchant (in the way potions are sold at a merchant, so that the player isn't making tons of money off it other than in volume.

 

As for housing and guild headquarters... you are very correct, however in order for these to be worthwhile Col sinks, they will need to actually do something, otherwise the only reason to get a house is A) bragging rights, or B) because you have nothing else to spend your Col on, and B) doesn't help us very much.

 

I do like something Ariel touched on, in that if you bought a shop, you could customize it. We have to be careful though that NOT having a shop doesn't hold anyone back. Maybe having a shop gives you bonus crafting attempts. Maybe you can't salvage failed attempts without a shop. Maybe without a shop, you have to pay to rent a forge, costing you 10 col per crafting attempt. You could then customize your shop. Maybe getting a Perfect Forge gives you +1 CD, or the like. We would need to have "modules" of what you could or couldn't add. And we would need to find a way to carry this over to player housing and guild housing. The obvious go-to is storage. This is already glossed over in shops, but it could be brought up into the discussion. What other bonus could you give to having a house though?