Weapon Tiers

[Zelrius 0]

So for a little bit now, This has been riding on my mind: The 3 Tier (Or 4 if you count unehanced) for Items is very limiting and makes thing often difficult for Higher Levels, and as we move on to Higher Floors, will make it extremely difficult to defeat later bosses. So, For those of you reading this, Here is what I propose:

 

We scratch the Uncommon, Rare, And Perfect Qualities in order to have more variety and stronger weapons for the stronger players. With this, I'd like to implement more "Tiers" or in other words, The abilities or Enhancements able to, be put on a weapon. This is what I've drafted:

 

Tier 1: Uncommon - As Normal, Adds 1 Enhancement to an item

Tier 2: Different - New name for +2, Rare seems to be a little too scarce to be used early

Tier 3: Enchanted - +3, As usual

 

Now those are what we currently have, Just named differently. But, as I've said before we are becoming rather limited in +3 Enhancements. I think that if a Profession reaches a certain rank (Such as 5+) They should have access to higher tier crafting with their Crafting Dice. This would work like this: We will use Kosan as an example. Say Kosan is Rank 7 Blacksmith. Currently he can craft Perfects at a 12, Rares at a 10-11 and Uncommons at a 8-9. (If these are not the actual numbers, Do not worry it is only an example) And well that is great, This is the only thing that separates a High Rank such as Kosan from a low Rank such as Shanok. There should be more differentiation between the Ranks. My new system would work like this: Kosan, Rank 7,

Broken - CD 1

Bad - CD  2-3

Good - CD 4-6

Uncommon - CD 7-8

Different - CD 9-10

Enchanted - CD 11

Special - CD 12

 

Notice Special, Which would be the +4 in this new system as Follows:

 

Uncommon +1

Different +2

Enchanted +3

Special +4

Favored +5

Rare +6

Promethean +7

Arcane +8

Inscribed +9

Exalted +10

 

Of course, This not being in any sort of effect, There would be more Tiers, But I am just giving a draft. These weapons would of course be harder to come across and of Course, More expensive to buy from Black smiths. Furthermore: I'd like to say that for every extra Tier, It should be either 1.5x(ProfessionRank) or 2x(ProfessionRank). Therefore, Special you have to be Rank 5, Favored Rank 10 (Or 7.5) Etc Etc.

 

I also have noticed that a TON of low levels get their hands on Higher Tiered Items quite easily. I say that everything aboce Enchanted should have a Minimum level requirement, Or even a Weapon Skill Level minimum. This makes it so that Level 3's cannot run around with Exalted's and be just as strong or stronger as Level 30's.

 

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[Kiru 0]

I agree that there should be level requirements on the weapons. It woul be quite boring if everyone had an exalted weapon, then it wouldn't be special nor have much damage to it.

[Oikawa 1]

Zelrius knows whats up! I've more or less had this conversation with others and we agree the current system is to easy to abuse. Hell, I exploited it the minute I could craft. Had a Perfect Set by Level 5.

[Him 0]

I find this fantastically superior to the modern system:

• Level Requirements - Allows for players to have a notable playing field for each step up, permitting them to fight higher level monsters and bosses as if they were actual carriers of a team. As of now, somebody like Keith would have to fight a monster with over 50 HP for a single material while somebody like me would only have to fight something with 5 HP. If I was to get a perfect item and rank up a Weapon Skill by one, that would one-shot a monster without a critical, permitting me with 10x more efficient farming.
• Weapon Ranking - Obviously, it is incredibly disappointing that the "best" gear in the game is openly available at this point to anyone, even fresh off the bat. I do understand that there are Unique weapons available, but they are insignificantly better. It's been like this since the beginning floors and, as we've seen, has left an incredibly dull combat system with the exception of bosses and special events.
• Crafting Rank - This is the best bet for a short term solution, I would assume that certain quests would have to be implemented at a later extent much like Essence of Steel, but must require a certain level and degree of difficulty to perform.
• Weapon Variety - With so many enchantment slots available, we'd need some more variety. I'm sure the community as a whole could throw in a ton of viable solutions so I'm not too concerned about that.

[Crozeph 0]

I agree with the level requirement, it gives other players a reason to put more effort on getting their hands on better equipment and not just rely on good crafting rolls. I admit I find myself content with my current stats, having high HP and enhancements are the only thing that gives everyone advantage in battle so putting on new tiers and level requirements will surely put us low-levels to aim for higher levels to get much better equipment and with the higher floors getting unlocked, we'll be needing to level up this system on equipments

[Rolland 0]

Zel, I love this idea, but you forgot a Tier name, you should have Legendary on there, for the best there is, and nothing more. One lower Tier than the Uniques, but one higher than the Perfects.

[Him 0]

Allow me to try and revise the current crafting system to suit such an idea, though this is completely revisable and open to suggestions. There's still work to be done on it, but it's more or less for an example system. Before anyone gets upset over the "downgrade" for the lower ranks, keep in mind that low ranks shouldn't be able to craft perfect items. They're in training and working towards creating better, more valuable items. Not to mention, the lower ranks are considerably easy to rank up.

 

Now, in regards to actually crafting, I do think that there should also be rankings to materials you gather. Certain ranking materials should only be obtainable from a certain Floor Level and upwards, with certain conditions (i.e. Special materials can be obtained on Floor 10+).

 

=

 

Rank 1: Starting rank and 2 Crafts a day

 

Broken (1)

Fail (2-4)

Poor (5-7)

Good (8-10)

Uncommon (11-12)
 

=

 

Rank 2: 20 total EXP and 3 Crafts a day
 

 

Broken (1)

Fail (2-4)

Poor (5-6)

Good (7-9)

Uncommon (10-12)

 

=

Rank 3: 40 total EXP and 4 Crafts a day

 

 

Broken (1)

Fail (2-4)

Poor (5-6)

Good (7-9)

Uncommon (10-11)

Different (12)

 

=

Rank 4: 80 total EXP and 5 Crafts a day
 

Broken (1)

Fail (2-3)

Poor (4-5)

Good (6-7)

Uncommon (8-10)

Different (11)

Enchanted (12)

 

=

 

Rank 5: 160 total EXP and 6 Crafts a day
 

Broken (1)

Fail (2-3)

Poor (4)

Good (5-6)

Uncommon (7-9)

Different (10-11)

Enchanted (12)

 

=

 

Rank 6: 320 total EXP and 7 Crafts a day

 

Broken (1)

Fail (2-3)

Good (4-6)

Uncommon (7-8)

Different (9-10)

Enchanted (11)

Special (12)
 

=

Rank 7: 640 total EXP and 8 Crafts a day

 

Broken (1)

Fail (2-3)

Good (4-5)

Uncommon (6-7)

Different (8-10)

Enchanted (10-11)

Special (12)

 

=

Rank 8: 1280 total EXP and 9 Crafts a day

 

Broken (1)

Fail (2-3)

Good (4-5)

Uncommon (6-7)

Different (8-9)

Enchanted (10)

Special (11)

Favored (12)

 

=

Rank 9: 2560 total EXP and 10 Crafts a day
 

Broken (1)

Good (2-3)

Uncommon (4-5)

Different (6-7)

Enchanted (8-9)

Special (10)

Favored (11)

Rare (12)

 

=

 

Rank 10: (Master Rank): 5120 total EXP and 10 Crafts a day
 

Broken (1)

Good (2)

Uncommon (3-4)

Different (5-6)

Enchanted (7-8)

Special (9-10)

Favored (11)

Rare (12)

Promethean (13)

 

Yes, that is a 13 you see. You would have to roll a 12 with a +1 CD item.

[Life 0]

Im liking the ideas being thrown out here. Keep in mind there will have to be a lot of reworking into new profession guides to keep up with the changes but i don't think that would be too much of an issue. Currently i believe the Gms are already working on a new system that will compensate for the higher level players, but i don't really know much about it. 

 

An idea that i had was making weapon tiers restricted to certain player levels. Such as level 1-6 only having access to uncommon. 7-14 only having access to rare, and 15+ to perfects. Uniques having no restrictions due to their rarity. 

 

The game is still in very early stages, we only just unlocked floor 10. Until we get to higher floors i don't see us getting better gear anytime soon (That's just my logic speaking) 

[Baldur 0]

I like where you're going with this, Zel, but there are a couple things we need to consider.

 

A) we're using a d10 for to hit, and a d20 for loot. I feel like this is backwards, and it would NEED to be switched if we're going to go with higher enhancements. If your current guide was chosen, and enhancements and dice rolls remained the same, you could get all enhancements you needed on a single item. By switching to the d20 for your combat die, it allows you to have a larger range of hit and miss, and allow for larger bonuses.

 

B )  I like the idea of level restrictions. I think we should also have "material tier" requirements. For example, floors 1-10 only drop "Tier 1 Mats" and "Tier 1 mats" can only create up to what you're calling Different or Enchanted (+2 or +3) Then Tier 2 Mats could allow you to create +3 and +4 or what have you. So basically a smith might be able to craft an awesome item, but it can't be done until floor 20 is unlocked or something. I think there is a strong precedent in lore to do this as well.

 

C) I like and I don't like the idea of level restrictions on weapons. It's a good idea for lack of any better ideas. I'd like to see skill worked in there somehow. Say, your level divided by 10, plus your weapon skill is the highest bonus you could use. That way, someone who really dedicated themselves to a weapon could use a slightly better one than someone who only put one rank in there. For example. Someone who is level 7, and has 1 rank in the weapon, could use a +2 weapon (7/10 =0.7 rounded up to 1, and then +1 for the weapon skill). But someone rank 3 in the weapon, could use a +4. I think this is a nice middle ground between the two systems. Not perfect, but I think it would help.

 

D) We need to adjust the level curve. You've all seen my graphic about that freaking grind. I think those peaks and valleys need to be normalized. This will help spread character levels out more evenly.

 

E) Mob damage needs to be adjusted as well. So while someone with 100 HP needs to fight 50 HP mobs, and he's (in the current system) capping out at 10 DMG, the mobs do almost no damage at all (there are no rules about minimum mob damage). If the weapons the players are using are getting more powerful, so does the damage the mobs do.

[Him 0]

A) Yes, this is an inherent problem. With so many possible enchantment slots, everything would be taken (as is). As we were discussing in the chat, a wider variety and depth of each enchantment would be necessary. Of course, players could go with the standard DMG or MIT, but other effects would need to be adjusted as well.

 

B) Already mentioned this in my latest comment.

 

C) A formula would be needed to incorporate the two ideas, but I do believe that would be a positive adjustment so long as it doesn't give you too much an advantage for your level range.

 

D) Yes, I do believe the 7-9 grind needs clean up. It is a hill that, as far as I've seen, causes players to lose interest rather quickly. They go from leveling at a steady, slowly curving pace to 4-6 times the standard.

 

E) Absolutely. Much like the Mob Health, the Mob Damage should incorporate a formula as well. Keith (he's a great basis example for all this higher tier talk) wouldn't even need damage mitigation while fighting a mob, just roll a 10+ on the CD and he instantly heals it back.

[Baldur 0]

I'm curious what the effect would be. I think I still have this as a spreadsheet somewhere. I'm going to compare a new and old chart so see how it would look. I think everyone above level 7 would jump up 5-7 levels, but I think the smoother flow will help with people who get discouraged or burned out at that point.

 

I made said graphic, but didn't want to sidetrack this thread, so if you want more info or discussion on adjusting the posts per level, look in my other thread HERE

 

 

EDIT:

 

Just saw the new profession guide. I think being able to crafter perfect items needs to be removed from Ranks 1-5. This would severely curb the number of perfects people generate. But I still think the number of equipment slots should be changed, and maybe defined, and that we should get higher bonuses as the game advances.

Edited February 13, 2015 by Baldur